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  3. I think the penny has dropped about something.

I think the penny has dropped about something.

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  • CharnockP Charnock

    @Taskerland I think I can see that in my own stuff too. I have masses of files and folders still extant from the 80s, then they fade out in the 90s as I started to computerise and there's no records at all. Backups maybe on 5 1/4s and 3" Amstrads and stuff, unreadable. Old Apple hard drives. Maybe some print outs.. then a lot later there's an older me, taking better care of my documents life-cycles. But there's def a 10 year gap.

    CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
    CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
    Charnock
    wrote on last edited by
    #7

    @Taskerland The thing I wish I'd written down was my reasoning.

    Like I can see huge evolutionary leaps in PC design and rules crib sheets for homebrews. Iterations of worlds and plots for second versions and attempts, but I never wrote in the margins

    "I have replaced HPs and Sanity with Mental and Physical Health because..."

    (but imagine on a grandiose scale)

    Moreau VazhT 1 Reply Last reply
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    • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

      This post is deleted!

      CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
      CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
      Charnock
      wrote on last edited by
      #8

      @Taskerland Most magazines still exist, archived, but it's impossible to get the sense of developing argument from binge reading them. They feel historical not living. Gaming culture isn't just forgotten though, it was actively conspired against. The GM as a concept to be sidelined is a definite corporate conspiracy.

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      • CharnockP Charnock

        @Taskerland The thing I wish I'd written down was my reasoning.

        Like I can see huge evolutionary leaps in PC design and rules crib sheets for homebrews. Iterations of worlds and plots for second versions and attempts, but I never wrote in the margins

        "I have replaced HPs and Sanity with Mental and Physical Health because..."

        (but imagine on a grandiose scale)

        Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
        Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
        Moreau Vazh
        wrote on last edited by
        #9
        This post is deleted!
        CharnockP 1 Reply Last reply
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        • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

          This post is deleted!

          CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
          CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
          Charnock
          wrote on last edited by
          #10

          @Taskerland The problem with a lot of my reasoning is when read back from even my more meticulous notes probably just sounds like the "Uullaaaaa" noise from Jeff Wayne's musical version of the War the Worlds.

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          • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

            One of the consequences of historical ignorance is a lack of awareness that things can be different because they have been different.

            So I look at discourse shaped by a hobby that is predominantly gamist and narrativist and, as far as they are concerned, other styles of play do not exist and if they did, they were toxic or wrong-headed.

            As someone who remembers what gaming was like a) pre-D20 and b) outside the Anglo-sphere, I feel like I am being constantly gaslit by the broader hobby.

            ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณๅผ ๆฎฟๆŽ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆZ This user is from outside of this forum
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            wrote on last edited by
            #11

            @Taskerland Out of curiosity, what is your favoured style?

            Moreau VazhT 1 Reply Last reply
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            • ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณๅผ ๆฎฟๆŽ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆZ ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณๅผ ๆฎฟๆŽ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

              @Taskerland Out of curiosity, what is your favoured style?

              Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
              Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
              Moreau Vazh
              wrote on last edited by
              #12
              This post is deleted!
              vdonnutV ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณๅผ ๆฎฟๆŽ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆZ 2 Replies Last reply
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              • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

                This post is deleted!

                vdonnutV This user is from outside of this forum
                vdonnutV This user is from outside of this forum
                vdonnut
                wrote on last edited by
                #13

                @Taskerland you are Trad for OSR gamers but OSR to Ess John xd

                @ZDL

                Moreau VazhT 1 Reply Last reply
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                • CharnockP Charnock

                  @Taskerland I think I can see that in my own stuff too. I have masses of files and folders still extant from the 80s, then they fade out in the 90s as I started to computerise and there's no records at all. Backups maybe on 5 1/4s and 3" Amstrads and stuff, unreadable. Old Apple hard drives. Maybe some print outs.. then a lot later there's an older me, taking better care of my documents life-cycles. But there's def a 10 year gap.

                  vdonnutV This user is from outside of this forum
                  vdonnutV This user is from outside of this forum
                  vdonnut
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #14

                  @Printdevil @Taskerland I once lost a trove of Polish RPG data because my hard drive said goodbye and I got scammed by a company that was supposed to fix it and never got it back. Now I keep thing in at least two devices at once. And some as physical stuff

                  Moreau VazhT Shimmin Beg (he/him)S 2 Replies Last reply
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                  • vdonnutV vdonnut

                    @Taskerland you are Trad for OSR gamers but OSR to Ess John xd

                    @ZDL

                    Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
                    Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
                    Moreau Vazh
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #15

                    @vdonnut I'm not really OSR... I was drawn to NSR stuff because it is rules-light and pays lip-service to the ideas of simulationism but I think either that window has closed or I imagined it being open in the first place.

                    With regards to EssJay, I think we are broadly aligned on practice (not surprising, Risus was my go-to game for years) if not on rhetoric.

                    I suspect if he ever puts out a list of high-trust adventures, I'd enjoy them more than I do modern OSR ones.

                    @ZDL

                    ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณๅผ ๆฎฟๆŽ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆZ 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • vdonnutV vdonnut

                      @Printdevil @Taskerland I once lost a trove of Polish RPG data because my hard drive said goodbye and I got scammed by a company that was supposed to fix it and never got it back. Now I keep thing in at least two devices at once. And some as physical stuff

                      Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
                      Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
                      Moreau Vazh
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #16
                      This post is deleted!
                      vdonnutV CharnockP 2 Replies Last reply
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                      • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

                        I think the penny has dropped about something.

                        One of my recurring whines is that ttrpg culture has zero institutional memory and that without institutional memory, shit gets forgotten remarkably quickly.

                        What I have realised is that each crash causes people to leave the hobby never to return and that is a loss of expertise, sensibility, and cultural memory.

                        So if I look at ttrpg bluesky or reddit, I am looking at people who are disconnected from history.

                        MalinM This user is from outside of this forum
                        MalinM This user is from outside of this forum
                        Malin
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #17

                        @Taskerland I ran games with no connection to the broader hobby for a decade. Going online never came with the expectation that anyone else's games might be similar.

                        The only mistake is searching for the truth of what games were like for 'Generation X, decade Y, system Z'. Those truths are American fables.

                        Moreau VazhT 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • vdonnutV vdonnut

                          @Printdevil @Taskerland I once lost a trove of Polish RPG data because my hard drive said goodbye and I got scammed by a company that was supposed to fix it and never got it back. Now I keep thing in at least two devices at once. And some as physical stuff

                          Shimmin Beg (he/him)S This user is from outside of this forum
                          Shimmin Beg (he/him)S This user is from outside of this forum
                          Shimmin Beg (he/him)
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #18

                          @vdonnut @Printdevil @Taskerland this reminds me that I really need to back up my external drives again

                          CharnockP 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • Shimmin Beg (he/him)S Shimmin Beg (he/him)

                            @vdonnut @Printdevil @Taskerland this reminds me that I really need to back up my external drives again

                            CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
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                            Charnock
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #19

                            I think important RPG information should tattooed on Rod Steiger

                            @shimminbeg @vdonnut @Taskerland

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                            • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

                              This post is deleted!

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                              vdonnut
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #20

                              @Taskerland @Printdevil no, I tried to move the case through official channels and had engaged "consumer ombudsman" - translator tells me i this is how they call it in your lands?

                              In the end the procedure was so complex and bureaucratic that I stopped at some point. Some pictures and documents were lost but it was a really bad time for me on many levels and I just couldn't engage in something requiring this much thought and energy. I just bashed them in every social media I had at the moment xd

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                              • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

                                This post is deleted!

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                                Charnock
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #21

                                I'd never use a recovery service here, there isn't a single one of my drives that wouldn't get me done for "possessing information likely to be of use to..."

                                And the PSNI love a quota.

                                @Taskerland @vdonnut

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                                • MalinM Malin

                                  @Taskerland I ran games with no connection to the broader hobby for a decade. Going online never came with the expectation that anyone else's games might be similar.

                                  The only mistake is searching for the truth of what games were like for 'Generation X, decade Y, system Z'. Those truths are American fables.

                                  Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  Moreau Vazh
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #22
                                  This post is deleted!
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                                  • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

                                    This post is deleted!

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                                    Charnock
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #23

                                    Youtube is awash with radicalised opinion froth about games.

                                    @Taskerland @malin

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                                    • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

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                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #24

                                      @Taskerland I'm split down the middle. In many cases I like trad with GM (although I don't like adversarial GMs, but rather prefer facilitator of even collaborative ones). I agree that overall I like rules-light (or at least rules-consistent: C&S5 is not rules **light** but it has two, very simple to describe, core mechanisms to learn instead of dozens) over rules-heavy/inconsistent because nothing drags me out of character faster than rolling endless dice and consulting endless tables.

                                      ๐Ÿงต โ–ถ๏ธ

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                                        @Taskerland I'm split down the middle. In many cases I like trad with GM (although I don't like adversarial GMs, but rather prefer facilitator of even collaborative ones). I agree that overall I like rules-light (or at least rules-consistent: C&S5 is not rules **light** but it has two, very simple to describe, core mechanisms to learn instead of dozens) over rules-heavy/inconsistent because nothing drags me out of character faster than rolling endless dice and consulting endless tables.

                                        ๐Ÿงต โ–ถ๏ธ

                                        ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณๅผ ๆฎฟๆŽ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆZ This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #25

                                        @Taskerland But, too, I sometimes find the simulationist/trad world a bit stifling in terms of actually getting an interesting story out of them. So even in those games I like having some form of metaprocedure (like the best-named "ass-saver points" from CORPS at minimum).

                                        And I'm unabashedly a fan of games like the FU-derived ones, or FATE or the Spark-derived ones.

                                        But I can't stand the PbtA/FitD/whatever ones, both from what I can understand of the design and for the paired culture.

                                        ๐Ÿงต โน๏ธ

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                                        • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

                                          @vdonnut I'm not really OSR... I was drawn to NSR stuff because it is rules-light and pays lip-service to the ideas of simulationism but I think either that window has closed or I imagined it being open in the first place.

                                          With regards to EssJay, I think we are broadly aligned on practice (not surprising, Risus was my go-to game for years) if not on rhetoric.

                                          I suspect if he ever puts out a list of high-trust adventures, I'd enjoy them more than I do modern OSR ones.

                                          @ZDL

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                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #26

                                          @Taskerland @vdonnut I could not find a coherent definition of what NSR even meant, to be honest.

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