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  3. Mark Carney calls for a 'Zionist' Palestine (yeah, he actually did)

Mark Carney calls for a 'Zionist' Palestine (yeah, he actually did)

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  • R rumimevlevi@lemmings.world

    Most of the Palestinians accept Israel existence and agree with the pre 67 border it is Israel who refuse to accept it and keep building illegal settlements making a two state solution hard to accomplish , every single Israeli prime minister has oppressed Palestinians and believe the land was their either for religious or ethnic supremacy reasons.

    Nothing but giving back all post 67 land to Palestinians , giving the right to return to Palestinians who was ethnically cleansing and want to go back to Israel while accepting their laws and also having an army to defend the state for any other potential aggression or a one state solution with equal rights to everybody would be accepted

    A This user is from outside of this forum
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    arkouda@lemmy.ca
    wrote on last edited by
    #19

    Nothing but giving back all post 67 land to Palestinians , giving the right to return to Palestinians who was ethnically cleansing and want to go back to Israel while accepting their laws and also having an army to defend the state for any other potential aggression or a one state solution with equal rights to everybody would be accepted

    You need to learn to recognize someone who agrees with you before arguing with them in the future. We know what needs to happen on the Israeli side for peace, my point is there is another side that has problems that need solving as well and that Palestinians are responsible for their side.

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    • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

      Nothing but giving back all post 67 land to Palestinians , giving the right to return to Palestinians who was ethnically cleansing and want to go back to Israel while accepting their laws and also having an army to defend the state for any other potential aggression or a one state solution with equal rights to everybody would be accepted

      You need to learn to recognize someone who agrees with you before arguing with them in the future. We know what needs to happen on the Israeli side for peace, my point is there is another side that has problems that need solving as well and that Palestinians are responsible for their side.

      R This user is from outside of this forum
      R This user is from outside of this forum
      rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
      wrote on last edited by
      #20

      We do not agree. You make look like both side don’t want peace. I think it is israel who don’t want it because they still believe in jewish supermacy

      A 1 Reply Last reply
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      • M maam@feddit.uk

        Victimblaming nicely folded into this comment.

        A This user is from outside of this forum
        A This user is from outside of this forum
        arkouda@lemmy.ca
        wrote on last edited by
        #21

        There are people responsible on both sides. I will not argue with you about that fact.

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        • W wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works

          I don’t. It is and always has been a stalling tactic for the purpose of ethnic cleansing. The only viable solution always has a been a one state solution of equal rights for all.

          Now if the Palestinians want to accept a two state solution out of desperation, sure I can live with that. Coming from anyone else? Get absolutely the fuck out of here. No ethno states, period. And Israel must abide by international law and allow the right to return of refugees.

          It is absolutely insane for Carney to suggest a Zionist Palestine.

          Why the two state solution is impossible.

          A This user is from outside of this forum
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          arkouda@lemmy.ca
          wrote on last edited by
          #22

          Why you needed to edit this 3 times in a couple of minutes, and then repost it after I responded, I can only assume you actually were hoping to get an out of context response, so I still won’t bother responding to your genocidal rhetoric about a 1 state solution, or continue this conversation further as I see you as a major part of the problem and do not have the energy to deal with you.

          W 1 Reply Last reply
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          • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

            Why you needed to edit this 3 times in a couple of minutes I will never know. Likely hoping to get an out of context response I assume so I won’t bother actually responding to your genocidal rhetoric about a 1 state solution, or continue this conversation further as I see you as a major part of the problem and do not have the energy to deal with you.

            R This user is from outside of this forum
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            rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
            wrote on last edited by
            #23

            The one state solution is the best solution. The hell are you talking about. A two state solution would mean 2 millions Palestinians will be kicked out of Israel and 700k settlers will be removed from the west bank. A one state solution will give equal rights to both Israelis and Palestinians what genocidal about it?

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            • K kaboom@reddthat.com

              It kinda does. They have an older claim than the Muslims.

              OmegaO This user is from outside of this forum
              OmegaO This user is from outside of this forum
              Omega
              wrote on last edited by
              #24

              Give back Anatolia to Brittany!

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • R rumimevlevi@lemmings.world

                We do not agree. You make look like both side don’t want peace. I think it is israel who don’t want it because they still believe in jewish supermacy

                A This user is from outside of this forum
                A This user is from outside of this forum
                arkouda@lemmy.ca
                wrote on last edited by
                #25

                I absolutely agree, Israel is very much doing incredibly unjust, disgusting, and unimaginable things right now but that doesn’t change the situation on the other side or what they have done.

                Why hasn’t Hama’s surrendered and returned the remaining hostages and bodies if peace is their goal?

                R M 2 Replies Last reply
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                • R rumimevlevi@lemmings.world

                  The one state solution is the best solution. The hell are you talking about. A two state solution would mean 2 millions Palestinians will be kicked out of Israel and 700k settlers will be removed from the west bank. A one state solution will give equal rights to both Israelis and Palestinians what genocidal about it?

                  A This user is from outside of this forum
                  A This user is from outside of this forum
                  arkouda@lemmy.ca
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #26

                  That is not at all what a two state solution should look like.

                  R 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

                    I absolutely agree, Israel is very much doing incredibly unjust, disgusting, and unimaginable things right now but that doesn’t change the situation on the other side or what they have done.

                    Why hasn’t Hama’s surrendered and returned the remaining hostages and bodies if peace is their goal?

                    R This user is from outside of this forum
                    R This user is from outside of this forum
                    rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #27

                    Hamas hasn’t surrendered and didn’t return the hostages because Israel will continue the genocide and occupation, Satanyaho admitted it . Hamas say they will drop arms when Gaza and west bank and east Jerusalem are no longer occupied.

                    How about liberating Palestinians then bring both sides war criminals to justice?

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                    • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

                      I absolutely agree, Israel is very much doing incredibly unjust, disgusting, and unimaginable things right now but that doesn’t change the situation on the other side or what they have done.

                      Why hasn’t Hama’s surrendered and returned the remaining hostages and bodies if peace is their goal?

                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                      maam@feddit.uk
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #28

                      Israel murdered 57k (2.7%) Palestinians in a population of 2.1m and decimated their homes with missiles all over the country.

                      A 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

                        That is not at all what a two state solution should look like.

                        R This user is from outside of this forum
                        R This user is from outside of this forum
                        rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #29

                        Tell me how it would look like

                        A 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • R rumimevlevi@lemmings.world

                          Hamas hasn’t surrendered and didn’t return the hostages because Israel will continue the genocide and occupation, Satanyaho admitted it . Hamas say they will drop arms when Gaza and west bank and east Jerusalem are no longer occupied.

                          How about liberating Palestinians then bring both sides war criminals to justice?

                          A This user is from outside of this forum
                          A This user is from outside of this forum
                          arkouda@lemmy.ca
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #30

                          You do understand that Palestinians are being oppressed by Hamas right? They have moved the goal post so many times themself it is clear they also don’t want peace. Especially considering their goal is to ethnically cleanse Israel.

                          Which is my damn point. Both sides need to stop because innocent civilians are dying daily, and the rest of the world needs to stop fucking around and disarm both parties to intervene for real.

                          R 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • M maam@feddit.uk

                            Israel murdered 57k (2.7%) Palestinians in a population of 2.1m and decimated their homes with missiles all over the country.

                            A This user is from outside of this forum
                            A This user is from outside of this forum
                            arkouda@lemmy.ca
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #31

                            Sounds like a good reason to surrender.

                            R M 2 Replies Last reply
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                            • R rumimevlevi@lemmings.world

                              Tell me how it would look like

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                              A This user is from outside of this forum
                              arkouda@lemmy.ca
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #32

                              Nothing but giving back all post 67 land to Palestinians , giving the right to return to Palestinians who was ethnically cleansing and want to go back to Israel while accepting their laws and also having an army to defend the state for any other potential aggression

                              I would also include right to return for Israelis who wish to return to their home lands they were ethnically cleansed from under the condition they abide by the laws there as well.

                              But you are just here to argue, so again, you don’t see the middle ground.

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                              • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

                                You do understand that Palestinians are being oppressed by Hamas right? They have moved the goal post so many times themself it is clear they also don’t want peace. Especially considering their goal is to ethnically cleanse Israel.

                                Which is my damn point. Both sides need to stop because innocent civilians are dying daily, and the rest of the world needs to stop fucking around and disarm both parties to intervene for real.

                                R This user is from outside of this forum
                                R This user is from outside of this forum
                                rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #33

                                While Hamas is oppressing the Palestinians who oppose it’s rule it is not the one who killed at least 50k of them. They the one who is currently attacking the occupation force.

                                Hamas can’t destroy Israel even if they want to and with a Palestinians state with it’s own army it could exterminate Hamas if it refuse to drop arms.

                                You won’t stop the oppressed retaliating with the most atrocious actions if the occupation don’t end first. This is basic logic. Would you have said both slaves and slaves owners need to stop violence in the same time after Nate Turner revolt where he killed some kids or you would simply has say slavery should be abolish first?

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                                • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

                                  Nothing but giving back all post 67 land to Palestinians , giving the right to return to Palestinians who was ethnically cleansing and want to go back to Israel while accepting their laws and also having an army to defend the state for any other potential aggression

                                  I would also include right to return for Israelis who wish to return to their home lands they were ethnically cleansed from under the condition they abide by the laws there as well.

                                  But you are just here to argue, so again, you don’t see the middle ground.

                                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                                  rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #34

                                  If you mean jews returning to Arab countries they where kicked out in response of Zionists doing the Nekba then yes i would support that

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

                                    Why you needed to edit this 3 times in a couple of minutes, and then repost it after I responded, I can only assume you actually were hoping to get an out of context response, so I still won’t bother responding to your genocidal rhetoric about a 1 state solution, or continue this conversation further as I see you as a major part of the problem and do not have the energy to deal with you.

                                    W This user is from outside of this forum
                                    W This user is from outside of this forum
                                    wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #35

                                    I still won’t bother responding to your genocidal rhetoric

                                    Get lost hasbara. Israel has no legal right to exist.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

                                      Sounds like a good reason to surrender.

                                      R This user is from outside of this forum
                                      R This user is from outside of this forum
                                      rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #36

                                      Will them surrendering will end occupation?

                                      A 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • K kaboom@reddthat.com

                                        It kinda does. They have an older claim than the Muslims.

                                        acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
                                        acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
                                        acargitz
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #37

                                        What a profoundly stupid thing to say.

                                        Kindly, a Greek who isn’t making ridiculous claims on Marseille, Taranto, Constantinople, Caesarea, Cyrene, Antioch and Alexandria on the motherfucking Indus.

                                        K 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

                                          Do you believe in a two state solution?

                                          acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          acargitz
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #38

                                          The last 30 years of Israeli state policy after the Oslo accords has resulted in facts on the ground (Israeli phrasing, not mine) to the tune of 700k Israeli settlers in the West Bank.

                                          As the various calls for two states invariably ignore the Israeli facts on the ground, and do not propose any realistic vision for undoing them, at this stage they are merely promoting the creation of a Bantustan within the existing apartheid framework.

                                          In other words, the israeli facts on the ground have killed off the possibility of a two state solution, where Palestine would be an actual state. This means there are only two options:

                                          A) a continuation of the apartheid regime of the present, potentially with a Palestinian collaborationist Banstustan, and with various degrees of Israeli perpetrated genocide and ethnic cleansing thrown in during the inevitable flare-ups of violence.

                                          B) a plurinational post-apartheid democratic state with equal rights for all nationalities and religions from the Jordan to the Mediterranean.

                                          I guess the third option is for Israel to self-ethnically cleanse the settlers from the West Bank, but that sounds even more outlandish than the supposedly idealistic option B.

                                          There used to be an phrase that Israel can be “large, Jewish, democratic, but can only pick 2”. Over the last 30 years since Oslo, successive Israeli governments, more or less dominated by the Israeli Right, and basically by Netanyahu, has forced the choice of “Large”. So now the Israelis have to pick between Zionism and Democracy.

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