Hollow Knight: Silksong sinks to 'Mixed' Steam review status among Chinese gamers over its bafflingly bad translation, with Team Cherry promising to improve it
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One of the characters says „and btw Taiwan is a sovereign nation“
Not a bug/won’t fix
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I guess gone are the days when we laughed at bad localization and enjoyed the game anyway.
I get feeling let down about the localization, but to review bomb over it does feel particularly fragile, even for gamers.
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It’s not about liking/not liking poetry, it’s about credibility and verisimilitude. When a character says something, is it credible for the character to have said that? A guy walking around in the Harry Potter wizarding world speaking Shakespearean English is not credible, he’s a laughingstock.
I don’t know much about Hollow Knight but from what I can see it is not set in a fantasy Classical Chinese setting. Having characters in the game speak in the Classical Chinese style is not credible. It does not fit the setting, regardless of the broader similarities between Hollow Knight’s setting and Wuxia novels. It’s culturally tone deaf.
HK games are not set in China, but they are both firmly set in a medieval fantasy world, with knights, legends, superpowers and archaic language.
There is not much to ridicule about the literary poetry of Hollow Knight or Silksong; the mystery and grand imagery in their official description and dialogue is central to their overall historical fantasy worldbuilding.
Regarding Harry Potter, a very different modern urban fantasy setting, a Silksong phrase like “They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude” would be out of place(could be a Goblet of Fire clue). That phrase, however, fits squarely and properly into the medieval fantasy setting of Hollow Knight and Silksong. Both HK games are set among the ruins of a legendary, vaunted kingdom, where chivalry and remnants of castle courtesy live on.
The dramatic, archaic poetry present in HK and Silksong is a natural aspect of the game’s dramatic, archaic setting.
I am curious about the Chinese translations directly compared to the original English and how the official HK English compares to the official Silksong English.
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One of the characters says „and btw Taiwan is a sovereign nation“
Please tell me this is true
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I was mainly thinking of the NES days. “I feel asleep!” “I am Error.” “Someone set up us the bomb.” “A winner is you!”
all your base are belongs to us
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HK games are not set in China, but they are both firmly set in a medieval fantasy world, with knights, legends, superpowers and archaic language.
There is not much to ridicule about the literary poetry of Hollow Knight or Silksong; the mystery and grand imagery in their official description and dialogue is central to their overall historical fantasy worldbuilding.
Regarding Harry Potter, a very different modern urban fantasy setting, a Silksong phrase like “They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude” would be out of place(could be a Goblet of Fire clue). That phrase, however, fits squarely and properly into the medieval fantasy setting of Hollow Knight and Silksong. Both HK games are set among the ruins of a legendary, vaunted kingdom, where chivalry and remnants of castle courtesy live on.
The dramatic, archaic poetry present in HK and Silksong is a natural aspect of the game’s dramatic, archaic setting.
I am curious about the Chinese translations directly compared to the original English and how the official HK English compares to the official Silksong English.
HK games are not set in China, but they are both firmly set in a medieval fantasy world
??!
I guess we have completely different ideas of the word medieval. This to me looks like a completely separate, unique fantasy world with no resemblance whatsoever to a historical medieval setting of the sort that games like D&D are based on.
It’s fine if they have created this wonderful unique setting of their own, but then it leaves me with the question of how the language aspects of medieval society ended up there despite all the other differences. I mean these characters don’t even resemble humans!
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This is one reason I’ve effectively stopped caring about steam review bombs. People review bomb over the stupidest shit and never change their review if the tiny issue is fixed
Why can’t they speak freedom language? 🇺🇲
🇺🇲 we’re here to fuck up democracy and act like the center of the world, and we’re out of democracy 🇺🇲Would be fun if Lemmy had a feature to block people / instances by country, now that I think of it
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There are several things to keep in mind:
The official Chinese itself makes literary sense, and is within the dramatic, haunting medieval atmosphere of the games.
From what I can read(I lived in China for 7 years and have translated Chinese wuxia comics), the Silksong quotes you shared have been search-engine retranslated to English to be unnecessarily and deliberately obscure.
The first Silksong line can easily be retranslated differently; a literal Google translation of a translation will obviously yield unsatisfying translations. Do you know the original English quotes translated into Chinese?
The Silksong translators have apparently chosen to use words like “without” rather than “no” for dramatic effect. You can translate the character for “without” as no, but the irate fans have not.
The Silksong translators have chosen to be more dramatic and poetic this time around.
It’s completely fair that people don’t like them, but the official Chinese translations themselves are not as complicated as they are being presented and fit within the poetry and medieval drama of HK.
What’s the difference between the “Hollow Knight” and “Silksong” versions mentioned above? Clearly the Silksong Chinese text is longer. Also the retranslated English text is missing the core points from the original English text.
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This is one reason I’ve effectively stopped caring about steam review bombs. People review bomb over the stupidest shit and never change their review if the tiny issue is fixed
Didn’t steam just change the reviews to be aggregated per language? So Chinese or Russian review bombs won’t effect the rating that you see any longer.
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There are several things to keep in mind:
The official Chinese itself makes literary sense, and is within the dramatic, haunting medieval atmosphere of the games.
From what I can read(I lived in China for 7 years and have translated Chinese wuxia comics), the Silksong quotes you shared have been search-engine retranslated to English to be unnecessarily and deliberately obscure.
The first Silksong line can easily be retranslated differently; a literal Google translation of a translation will obviously yield unsatisfying translations. Do you know the original English quotes translated into Chinese?
The Silksong translators have apparently chosen to use words like “without” rather than “no” for dramatic effect. You can translate the character for “without” as no, but the irate fans have not.
The Silksong translators have chosen to be more dramatic and poetic this time around.
It’s completely fair that people don’t like them, but the official Chinese translations themselves are not as complicated as they are being presented and fit within the poetry and medieval drama of HK.
It’s great to hear from a trusted authority that the translation is perfect. I’m sure the Chinese will be happy to hear that their concerns are baseless
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don’t speak a language
have no idea yourself how the end product will turn out
every person you hire has to be trusted with a grain of salt and you have to take them at their word
Nightmare, but now that the game is out, it isn’t like the content is under Fort Knox anymore and they can peer review it with the community until its right.
it’s not like the cartridge age and they’re burying them in the new mexico desert or something
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Didn’t steam just change the reviews to be aggregated per language? So Chinese or Russian review bombs won’t effect the rating that you see any longer.
there’s a setting for that now, i think the default is yes.
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HK games are not set in China, but they are both firmly set in a medieval fantasy world
??!
I guess we have completely different ideas of the word medieval. This to me looks like a completely separate, unique fantasy world with no resemblance whatsoever to a historical medieval setting of the sort that games like D&D are based on.
It’s fine if they have created this wonderful unique setting of their own, but then it leaves me with the question of how the language aspects of medieval society ended up there despite all the other differences. I mean these characters don’t even resemble humans!
I’ve got no dog in this race, but they’re bugs my dude. Even then, it’s quite clear later on this isn’t meant to be a modern setting, it’s definitely medieval. This is like screen grabbing the first shot of Robin Hood and saying it’s in a forest so it must not take place in medieval times.
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Buying a game because it claims it is available in your language and then getting served an awful, nonsensical translation is absolutely not a stupid reason to leave a bad review.
This will be fixed in a week or two, but 80% of the reviews will not change. That’s just what review bombers do. Many buy the game to jump on the band wagon and refund the game. Review still counts.
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Didn’t steam just change the reviews to be aggregated per language? So Chinese or Russian review bombs won’t effect the rating that you see any longer.
That only impacts the reviews if you want to actually read them the total reviews are not filtered.
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HK games are not set in China, but they are both firmly set in a medieval fantasy world
??!
I guess we have completely different ideas of the word medieval. This to me looks like a completely separate, unique fantasy world with no resemblance whatsoever to a historical medieval setting of the sort that games like D&D are based on.
It’s fine if they have created this wonderful unique setting of their own, but then it leaves me with the question of how the language aspects of medieval society ended up there despite all the other differences. I mean these characters don’t even resemble humans!
“…completely different ideas of the word medieval.”
That is likely due to our staggered familiarity with the games, which you haven’t played. Your screenshot is from one of the areas outside the collapsed castles and cities, without any narration or dialogue, and is consequently non-representative of the setting and atmosphere.
Bearing in mind that medieval only refers to one aspect of the setting mentioned above, it’s an accurate descriptor for Hollow Knight and Silksong: Medieval refers to the time after the bygone era of royal society, fallen castles and a decimated population left behind after the apparent invasion and collapse. Even in your screenshot early on in the game, you can see evidence of some higher society collapsed by that gilded metal.
The Hollow Knight games are all about a wandering knight/warrior returning long after the collapse, working their way up to a central castle structure, “The Citadel”. What used to be a thriving world and society with centralized authority has been reduced to destroyed cities and towns, abandoned, shadowy brick and mortar rooms and roads, some shuttered churches and scattered huts lit by candles. Evidence of grander past societal achievements are the physical setting of the game in the forms of great broken bridges, mechanical mechanisms that few are capable of operating or maintaining, and importantly to this thread, “the language aspects of medieval society” can be seen throughout all game text as anachronistic linguistic references to a bygone higher world, both structurally and socially.
“the characters don’t even resemble humans!”
They are not humans, they are bugs, which is where the “fantasy” descriptor comes into play.
If you like video games, you should give HK or Silksong a whirl. They are great games and a lot of what I have had a very fun time describing will be both apparent and described in-game after you’ve spent time in their world.
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What’s the difference between the “Hollow Knight” and “Silksong” versions mentioned above? Clearly the Silksong Chinese text is longer. Also the retranslated English text is missing the core points from the original English text.
I’m not sure what that screenshot is supposed to be directly comparing, you’ll have to ask that commenter.
The difference in the Chinese characters and words themselves is that the Silksong words are more complex, like using “无”(without) rather than the simple negative “no”, even “台”(platform) has a dozen different meanings depending on the context. The HK characters more concretely refer to single or limited actions and objects, while the Silksong characters are more complex and dynamically significant, depending on a lot of context to discern any specificity.
If all of Silksong is translated like that, it indicates the Chinese translators have focused on translating the overall shadowy, legendary, poetic atmosphere of the game throughout the descriptions and dialogue linguistically, which is contrary to the brief, down-to-earth descriptions and dialogue of much of the English source text. It seems like an artistic choice by the translators, but apparently not one that is resonating with some of the Chinese-speaking audience.
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It’s great to hear from a trusted authority that the translation is perfect. I’m sure the Chinese will be happy to hear that their concerns are baseless
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“…completely different ideas of the word medieval.”
That is likely due to our staggered familiarity with the games, which you haven’t played. Your screenshot is from one of the areas outside the collapsed castles and cities, without any narration or dialogue, and is consequently non-representative of the setting and atmosphere.
Bearing in mind that medieval only refers to one aspect of the setting mentioned above, it’s an accurate descriptor for Hollow Knight and Silksong: Medieval refers to the time after the bygone era of royal society, fallen castles and a decimated population left behind after the apparent invasion and collapse. Even in your screenshot early on in the game, you can see evidence of some higher society collapsed by that gilded metal.
The Hollow Knight games are all about a wandering knight/warrior returning long after the collapse, working their way up to a central castle structure, “The Citadel”. What used to be a thriving world and society with centralized authority has been reduced to destroyed cities and towns, abandoned, shadowy brick and mortar rooms and roads, some shuttered churches and scattered huts lit by candles. Evidence of grander past societal achievements are the physical setting of the game in the forms of great broken bridges, mechanical mechanisms that few are capable of operating or maintaining, and importantly to this thread, “the language aspects of medieval society” can be seen throughout all game text as anachronistic linguistic references to a bygone higher world, both structurally and socially.
“the characters don’t even resemble humans!”
They are not humans, they are bugs, which is where the “fantasy” descriptor comes into play.
If you like video games, you should give HK or Silksong a whirl. They are great games and a lot of what I have had a very fun time describing will be both apparent and described in-game after you’ve spent time in their world.
Yes, it seems we do have different ideas of the word medieval. To me, medieval is not an abstract idea, it’s a specific period in European history. To be medieval a setting has to bear significant resemblance to that period.
This is not medieval. It’s very ornate but it bears no resemblance whatsoever to medieval art or architecture. If anything, it’s closer to Victorian than medieval. Everything I’ve seen in HK screenshots tells me it’s a fantasy pastiche of elements. It has no affinity with any particular period in human culture. Rather, it’s a cut-and-paste construction. (I hate the word appropriation because it implies theft. I do not want to imply that).
Like if a fantasy game is set on Mars with a bunch of green skinned Martians as characters then it’s not medieval even if the characters use Anglo-Saxon instead of English. It’s a pastiche of science fiction, fantasy, and medieval elements and it suffers from the same issue that a lot of bad Star Trek episodes had (see: planet of hats), which is verisimilitude:
Why did this society, which otherwise seems completely alien, just happen to evolve a conspicuous element that’s uncannily similar to an element in human history?
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I’m not sure what that screenshot is supposed to be directly comparing, you’ll have to ask that commenter.
The difference in the Chinese characters and words themselves is that the Silksong words are more complex, like using “无”(without) rather than the simple negative “no”, even “台”(platform) has a dozen different meanings depending on the context. The HK characters more concretely refer to single or limited actions and objects, while the Silksong characters are more complex and dynamically significant, depending on a lot of context to discern any specificity.
If all of Silksong is translated like that, it indicates the Chinese translators have focused on translating the overall shadowy, legendary, poetic atmosphere of the game throughout the descriptions and dialogue linguistically, which is contrary to the brief, down-to-earth descriptions and dialogue of much of the English source text. It seems like an artistic choice by the translators, but apparently not one that is resonating with some of the Chinese-speaking audience.
the so called “artistic choice” by the translators clearly diverges from the original writer’s artistic choices in a way that audiences perceive it as negative
