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  3. Hollow Knight: Silksong sinks to 'Mixed' Steam review status among Chinese gamers over its bafflingly bad translation, with Team Cherry promising to improve it

Hollow Knight: Silksong sinks to 'Mixed' Steam review status among Chinese gamers over its bafflingly bad translation, with Team Cherry promising to improve it

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  • 1 13igTyme

    This will be fixed in a week or two, but 80% of the reviews will not change. That’s just what review bombers do. Many buy the game to jump on the band wagon and refund the game. Review still counts.

    Bilb!B This user is from outside of this forum
    Bilb!B This user is from outside of this forum
    Bilb!
    wrote on last edited by
    #59

    Yeah, that’s a consequence of putting out a flawed product. Who cares?

    A 1 Reply Last reply
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    • C chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world

      Yes, it seems we do have different ideas of the word medieval. To me, medieval is not an abstract idea, it’s a specific period in European history. To be medieval a setting has to bear significant resemblance to that period.

      This is not medieval. It’s very ornate but it bears no resemblance whatsoever to medieval art or architecture. If anything, it’s closer to Victorian than medieval. Everything I’ve seen in HK screenshots tells me it’s a fantasy pastiche of elements. It has no affinity with any particular period in human culture. Rather, it’s a cut-and-paste construction. (I hate the word appropriation because it implies theft. I do not want to imply that).

      Like if a fantasy game is set on Mars with a bunch of green skinned Martians as characters then it’s not medieval even if the characters use Anglo-Saxon instead of English. It’s a pastiche of science fiction, fantasy, and medieval elements and it suffers from the same issue that a lot of bad Star Trek episodes had (see: planet of hats), which is verisimilitude:

      Why did this society, which otherwise seems completely alien, just happen to evolve a conspicuous element that’s uncannily similar to an element in human history?

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      Guest
      wrote on last edited by Guest
      #60

      “Why did this society, which otherwise seems completely alien, just happen to evolve a conspicuous element that’s uncannily similar to an element in human history?”

      The game was designed to include gothic architecture and medieval society, rather than those elements evolving within the game.

      It’s natural that the game would be designed with elements of human society and history given that humans designed the game around the character of a “knight”, calling to mind swordplay, castles, legends and chivalry.

      If the story was all about food delivery in Adelaide in 2011, the setting and language would be very different.

      Since the HK stories focus on fantasy swordsmanship, fallen castles and knights, strongly associated in the human world with chivalrous poems of legends(King Arthur, for example), the descriptions and dialogues of HK reflect that.

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • D dukemirage@lemmy.world

        One of the characters says „and btw Taiwan is a sovereign nation“

        samus12345@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
        samus12345@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
        samus12345@sh.itjust.works
        wrote on last edited by
        #61

        “Xi Jingping Winnie the Pooh Moron”

        R 1 Reply Last reply
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        • kingraptor@sh.itjust.worksK kingraptor@sh.itjust.works

          That is very close to the English text of both the original Hollow Knight and Silksong.

          I disagree. If the original is a 3 or 4 on the dramatic and archaic language scale then the translation is a 8+ which definitely changes the tone. Compare the lines you posted with the retranslated quote.

          Let me give you the example from my previous comment in its original context:

          Global reviews praised Silksong into the stratosphere, with a glowing 92% positivity. In China, however, the numbers plummeted almost immediately to 76% 52%. And the reason could not be hidden: it was the localization. Complaints date back to the August demo, when awkward word choices like 苔穴 (‘moss-hole’) raised eyebrows. Despite repeated feedback, the translation team brushed off criticism—changing their social media bios to ‘don’t comment if you don’t understand.’ That defiance only inflamed players further. What players found on screen was not the brisk, lyrical, elegant style that had carried the first Hollow Knight to such acclaim, but a swamp of overwrought archaisms, a self-indulgent carnival of tangled phrasing that felt less like modern Chinese and more like a Qing-dynasty soap opera written by someone pretending to be Shakespeare.

          To illustrate the calamity, one need only place the original Hollow Knight’s translation beside Silksong’s.

          The original:

          No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry out in suffering. Born of God and Void. You are the Vessel. You are the Hollow Knight.

          Concise. Clean. Haunting.

          Now behold the Silksong version, which players were forced to endure — rendered here in English as the grotesque monstrosity it resembled:

          With nary a spirit nor thought shalt thou persist, bereft of mortal will, unbent, unswayed. With no lament nor tearful cry, only sorrow’s dirge to herald thine eternal woe. Born of gods and of the fathomless abyss, grasping heaven’s firmament in thine unworthy palm. Shackled to endless dream, tormented by pestilence and shadow, thy heart besieged by phantasmal demons. Thou art the chalice of destiny. Verily, thou art the Primordial Knight of Hollowness.

          One can imagine the reaction. Players did not feel immersed in Pharloom; they felt trapped in a high-school drama club’s Elizabethan improv night. Instead of fighting for survival, they were decoding riddles with the cadence of a failed King James Bible. It is impossible to perform platforming precision when the screen itself sounds like a plague sermon.

          And another example, also with English retranslation: Image

          Edit: I should note just in case, that the image above is a parody: this is what some Chinese players feel the new team would have localized the lines above from the first game.

          I don’t see how that delivers the “equivalent experience” that a faithful localization is meant to provide to the target language reader.

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          jacksilver@lemmy.world
          wrote on last edited by
          #62

          I mean, it’s not 1:1, but for some of the lines I think I like the Chinese version better. Sometimes the lines in hollow knight/silksong feel empty so adding a bit “more” isn’t too bad.

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          • 1 13igTyme

            This is one reason I’ve effectively stopped caring about steam review bombs. People review bomb over the stupidest shit and never change their review if the tiny issue is fixed

            I This user is from outside of this forum
            I This user is from outside of this forum
            ibuthyr@feddit.org
            wrote on last edited by
            #63

            I’ve stopped caring about steam reviews completely. Too often I have bought a game that was reviewed as overwhelmingly positive and it turned out to be some boring ass niche game. At least I got them refunded.

            S C L 3 Replies Last reply
            3
            • 1 13igTyme

              This is one reason I’ve effectively stopped caring about steam review bombs. People review bomb over the stupidest shit and never change their review if the tiny issue is fixed

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              korhaka@sopuli.xyz
              wrote on last edited by
              #64

              Poor translation seems like a pretty fair reason to me tbh, steam now groups reviews by language too

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • 1 13igTyme

                This is one reason I’ve effectively stopped caring about steam review bombs. People review bomb over the stupidest shit and never change their review if the tiny issue is fixed

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                regdog@lemmy.world
                wrote on last edited by
                #65

                A game having a bad translation in your language is a valid concern, and not “stupid shit”.

                L H 2 Replies Last reply
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                • ook@discuss.tchncs.deO ook@discuss.tchncs.de

                  Probably excusable when neither one of the devs speak the language. They probably trusted whoever did the translation and that’s that. Seems like an easy fix though.

                  I am just curious how bad it could be that you would write a negative review about it. I’ve seen some pretty bad translations in my language, but it never made the game unplayable. I guess difficult to convey when you are not a Chinese speaker, the article examples don’t mean much to me.

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                  Cethin
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #66

                  From what I’ve heard, Chinese gamers are significantly more likely to leave a negative review if there are issues. I don’t know if that’s good or bad. I think it’s good for consumers to demand the products they buy to be as good as possible, but it also just makes developers want to avoid them, or do things like Steam has and separate reviews by language by default.

                  V 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • Bilb!B Bilb!

                    Yeah, that’s a consequence of putting out a flawed product. Who cares?

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                    AwesomeLowlander
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #67

                    In this one case, it kinda sucks for the devs since they presumably had no way of knowing they were releasing a flawed product. It was probably the translator that fucked them over.

                    C 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • J jacksilver@lemmy.world

                      I mean, it’s not 1:1, but for some of the lines I think I like the Chinese version better. Sometimes the lines in hollow knight/silksong feel empty so adding a bit “more” isn’t too bad.

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                      AwesomeLowlander
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #68

                      adding a bit “more” isn’t too bad.

                      That’s not the job of a bloody translator.

                      J 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • R regdog@lemmy.world

                        A game having a bad translation in your language is a valid concern, and not “stupid shit”.

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                        lath@lemmy.world
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #69

                        From people who have no translation in their own language, yes it is.

                        ThePuyA 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • I ibuthyr@feddit.org

                          I’ve stopped caring about steam reviews completely. Too often I have bought a game that was reviewed as overwhelmingly positive and it turned out to be some boring ass niche game. At least I got them refunded.

                          S This user is from outside of this forum
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                          superduperkitten@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #70

                          For me, it’s massive shitpost in reviews which I just want to know if the game is good. The worst thing is their often so unfunny and wish there’s a way to filter out those reviews (which is using it loosely)

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          1
                          • R railcar8095@lemmy.world

                            Not a bug/won’t fix

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                            denaggels@feddit.org
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #71

                            Literally a bug

                            R 1 Reply Last reply
                            4
                            • D denaggels@feddit.org

                              Literally a bug

                              R This user is from outside of this forum
                              R This user is from outside of this forum
                              railcar8095@lemmy.world
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #72

                              Bug report: not enough bugs in the city of bugs.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              2
                              • L lath@lemmy.world

                                From people who have no translation in their own language, yes it is.

                                ThePuyA This user is from outside of this forum
                                ThePuyA This user is from outside of this forum
                                ThePuy
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #73

                                Big countries really sound entitled when you’ve lived a life of your language not even being considered, I understand where they come from but I can’t help but feel a little aggravated

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • A AwesomeLowlander

                                  adding a bit “more” isn’t too bad.

                                  That’s not the job of a bloody translator.

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                                  J This user is from outside of this forum
                                  jacksilver@lemmy.world
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #74

                                  I mean yes and no. The translator is supposed to make sure the text conveys the same meaning/intent. That doesn’t mean things are 1:1.

                                  With cryptic and poetic text as seen in these games you certainly can’t just Google translate it.

                                  A 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • A AwesomeLowlander

                                    In this one case, it kinda sucks for the devs since they presumably had no way of knowing they were releasing a flawed product. It was probably the translator that fucked them over.

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                                    chunes@lemmy.world
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #75

                                    Don’t sell to markets you don’t understand. I don’t feel sorry for them, even as a big Hollow Knight fan.

                                    A 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • I ibuthyr@feddit.org

                                      I’ve stopped caring about steam reviews completely. Too often I have bought a game that was reviewed as overwhelmingly positive and it turned out to be some boring ass niche game. At least I got them refunded.

                                      C This user is from outside of this forum
                                      C This user is from outside of this forum
                                      chunes@lemmy.world
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #76

                                      Yep, this is caused because people flood in from their little discord server where everyone has crawled up the dev’s ass. Once you learn to recognize this you’ll never be able to unsee it.

                                      I 1 Reply Last reply
                                      1
                                      • I ibuthyr@feddit.org

                                        I’ve stopped caring about steam reviews completely. Too often I have bought a game that was reviewed as overwhelmingly positive and it turned out to be some boring ass niche game. At least I got them refunded.

                                        L This user is from outside of this forum
                                        L This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Loren
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #77

                                        Too often I have bought a game that was reviewed as overwhelmingly positive and it turned out to be some boring ass niche game.

                                        Ironically, this is how I feel about Hollow Knight lol

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        1
                                        • C chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world

                                          I have played plenty of other games where characters speak in a classical style. Unless it’s being done to mark the characters as old fashioned (or the world is literally set in medieval times) then it comes off as extremely pretentious.

                                          Edit: I know Hollow Knight is sacred in the indie game community. I’m just saying this is something that annoys many people (including me) who prefer verisimilitude and authenticity.

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                                          redacted@lemmy.zip
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #78

                                          Thats the thing, that IS the atmosphere the game goes for, you do not know about what you are talking about.

                                          C 1 Reply Last reply
                                          1

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