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  3. Thoughts on preemptively banning Gen-AI?

Thoughts on preemptively banning Gen-AI?

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  • Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary

    Nope, it isn't.

    Cheaters should never be allowed to prosper. It undermines the entire idea that creative work is of value, and will inevitably lead to a day when artists are seen as as much of a piece of scum on someone's shoe as cashiers are.

    INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
    INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
    INeedMana
    wrote last edited by
    #63

    I think we are way past the point when creative work is enough

    Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP 1 Reply Last reply
    4
    • INeedManaI INeedMana

      I think we are way past the point when creative work is enough

      Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
      Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
      Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary
      wrote last edited by
      #64

      So you're arguing so hard to replace artists because you already don't value them?

      INeedManaI 1 Reply Last reply
      1
      • INeedManaI INeedMana

        I’m afraid that’s a very high bar ATM

        Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
        Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
        Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary
        wrote last edited by
        #65

        It's meant to be a high bar forever.

        "Generative AI" is a scam perpetrated by people who hate artists, while envying their capacity to create art, while also not understanding what art really is. Period.

        INeedManaI 1 Reply Last reply
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        • INeedManaI INeedMana

          That’s great. And it should be encouraged. But what about modern+ settings?

          S This user is from outside of this forum
          S This user is from outside of this forum
          Skua
          wrote last edited by
          #66

          Oh definitely, it’s not a universal solution. Just figured I’d mention a less obvious option that has helped me out before

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • J This user is from outside of this forum
            J This user is from outside of this forum
            justOnePersistentKbinPlease
            wrote last edited by
            #67

            That is a straw man.

            I never said banning non open source. I equated corporate “AI” with the corporate practice of stealing open source projects.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • FaceDeerF This user is from outside of this forum
              FaceDeerF This user is from outside of this forum
              FaceDeer
              wrote last edited by
              #68

              Well, there’s plenty of AI that isn’t “corporate” AI, and that is itself open. So the distinction you’re drawing isn’t going to put all AI on one side and all non-AI on the other side.

              Heck, there’s plenty of “corporate” RPGs that are near-universal staples of the hobby. D&D is owned by Hasbro, along with a lot of its tools.

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • S sirblastalot@ttrpg.network

                I’ve been reading about the user revolt on the Twin Peaks subreddit calling for a ban on AI art. As best I can tell we don’t really have people posting AI stuff here yet, but I’m wondering if it would be a good idea to ban it before it becomes a problem. I’m soliciting feedback from y’all on this, please let me know what you prefer.

                Carl [he/him]C This user is from outside of this forum
                Carl [he/him]C This user is from outside of this forum
                Carl [he/him]
                wrote last edited by carl@hexbear.net
                #69

                I would propose a rule like this:

                Posts solely containing AI-generated content are banned. Posts that contain AI-generated content as part of a larger piece or project that is human-created are okay.

                This prevents the potential problem of people just posting their AI-generated character portraits and the feed getting flooded by those (which is the reason why I personally block multiple AI art communities), but does not prevent people who used AI generation in part to put together an adventure or something like that from sharing their work.

                S 1 Reply Last reply
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                • M This user is from outside of this forum
                  M This user is from outside of this forum
                  magicshel@lemmy.zip
                  wrote last edited by
                  #70

                  You closed with “No AI.” It doesn’t feel like a straw man. It’s fine to say no corporate AI but that might be even harder to single out.

                  I’m personally looking into domain specific fine tunes of small, open source models that can compete with larger models in at least one small area - specifically in roleplaying, though my interest is creating a chat bot to facilitate group gaming, not generating systems or art.

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                  • Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary

                    So you're arguing so hard to replace artists because you already don't value them?

                    INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                    INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                    INeedMana
                    wrote last edited by ineedmana@piefed.zip
                    #71

                    No. For one I don’t believe it will replace artists. What I expect is that we will never be able to hold wotc, hasbro, etc to this standard. Which means they’ll have an even higher advantage against one-person creators
                    The artists working for big ones will be using AIGen to speed up their work. Same as using search engines to find info and references
                    Creators for which the AIGenned cover is enough, won’t commission a real artist anyway
                    I’m afraid that such rule here ( meaning we are social network, not the shop) would skew the scale towards the big ones - they’ll be getting more coverage, even here

                    Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary

                      It's meant to be a high bar forever.

                      "Generative AI" is a scam perpetrated by people who hate artists, while envying their capacity to create art, while also not understanding what art really is. Period.

                      INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                      INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                      INeedMana
                      wrote last edited by
                      #72

                      I think https://piefed.zip/post/511096#comment_1614098 also addresses this point

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • INeedManaI INeedMana

                        Yes, one can do that. But, probably because of how content ( in broad meaning) works, it’s not being done. That’s why I’m afraid such rule would mostly cut out the small-fries

                        W This user is from outside of this forum
                        W This user is from outside of this forum
                        wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                        wrote last edited by
                        #73

                        What makes you say it’s not being done? Where are you somehow finding a lack of content?

                        There’s free tools, maps, oneshots, entire games with 1-2 page rulesets being posted online all the time that aren’t utilizing AI. All for free. The TTRPG community is bursting with content.

                        INeedManaI 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • INeedManaI INeedMana

                          I share the view that rpg content mostly does not need images. But I can bet it sells better and gets better reach when it does

                          W This user is from outside of this forum
                          W This user is from outside of this forum
                          wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                          wrote last edited by
                          #74

                          So… you have no concrete support except a gut feeling?

                          INeedManaI 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • S sirblastalot@ttrpg.network

                            I’ve been reading about the user revolt on the Twin Peaks subreddit calling for a ban on AI art. As best I can tell we don’t really have people posting AI stuff here yet, but I’m wondering if it would be a good idea to ban it before it becomes a problem. I’m soliciting feedback from y’all on this, please let me know what you prefer.

                            J This user is from outside of this forum
                            J This user is from outside of this forum
                            jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
                            wrote last edited by
                            #75

                            I would be okay with a ban on AI generated content.

                            At the very least, I request a disclosure on any AI content.

                            So like, if you make a little RPG yourself and used some AI tool to make the art, you are required to disclose that. Likewise, if the flavor text for some of your game came from an AI, would-be consumers should be alerted. Heck, if it was used in the editing phase put that in the ai disclosure blurb.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            9
                            • INeedManaI INeedMana

                              No. For one I don’t believe it will replace artists. What I expect is that we will never be able to hold wotc, hasbro, etc to this standard. Which means they’ll have an even higher advantage against one-person creators
                              The artists working for big ones will be using AIGen to speed up their work. Same as using search engines to find info and references
                              Creators for which the AIGenned cover is enough, won’t commission a real artist anyway
                              I’m afraid that such rule here ( meaning we are social network, not the shop) would skew the scale towards the big ones - they’ll be getting more coverage, even here

                              Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
                              Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
                              Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary
                              wrote last edited by
                              #76

                              I'm thoroughly unconvinced by the argument that because giant corporations are doing evil things, the little guy ought to as well in order to "compete", and treating "AI" art as the only kind that will be posted either way.

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • Carl [he/him]C Carl [he/him]

                                I would propose a rule like this:

                                Posts solely containing AI-generated content are banned. Posts that contain AI-generated content as part of a larger piece or project that is human-created are okay.

                                This prevents the potential problem of people just posting their AI-generated character portraits and the feed getting flooded by those (which is the reason why I personally block multiple AI art communities), but does not prevent people who used AI generation in part to put together an adventure or something like that from sharing their work.

                                S This user is from outside of this forum
                                S This user is from outside of this forum
                                Skua
                                wrote last edited by
                                #77

                                That’s not a bad idea if we are going to allow it in some form

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                1
                                • T tramort@programming.dev

                                  if it drowns out everything else, it means that it’s being upvoted. if it’s being upvoted, then it means the community likes it. I see no issue with a preponderance of content coming from a single tool when the community is ultimately capable of moderating it just like any other content. why should I not be allowed to upvote something that I like because it came from AI, just because other people have a moral objection to it? I respect their right to object, but I don’t think they should be able to force those values onto me. if that is their goal, then they need to articulate an issue and be persuasive, not make rules in communities in which I’m a participant.

                                  M This user is from outside of this forum
                                  M This user is from outside of this forum
                                  mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #78

                                  ‘Upvotes mean it’s fine’ is how you get /r/Funny with different CSS.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • susaga@sh.itjust.worksS susaga@sh.itjust.works

                                    “AI is just a tool” is not how anyone uses AI. They treat AI like a free employee who will do the work for them. Note how people don’t say it replaces a paintbrush, but that it replaces a commissioned artist.

                                    “AI is not going away” is just a lie, making it seem inevitable so you stop fighting it. Just like how bitcoin is going to revolutionise currency, and now NFTs are the future.

                                    I see complete justification in banning the garbage output from the world-burning nazi-built plagiarism machine.

                                    M This user is from outside of this forum
                                    M This user is from outside of this forum
                                    mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #79

                                    ‘People say it’s a tool, but they use it for the thing it does!’ … what?

                                    How else could you use generative AI, except to generate a thing for you?

                                    Most things that could be commissioned - aren’t. The money is never spent. The money isn’t real. No one is robbed when a robot does the thing instead, because what it’s instead of, is the thing not happening.

                                    You cannot kvetch about this replacing all artists forever and still insist it’s a flash in the pan. The tech works. You can run it on your own computer, to-day. It plainly serves a desirable purpose. That alone makes comparisons to NFTs as spurious as those dolts insisting ‘people doubted the internet.’

                                    Any visions of this blowing over should’ve vanished when it became a porn faucet.

                                    Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP susaga@sh.itjust.worksS 2 Replies Last reply
                                    1
                                    • M mindbleach@sh.itjust.works

                                      ‘People say it’s a tool, but they use it for the thing it does!’ … what?

                                      How else could you use generative AI, except to generate a thing for you?

                                      Most things that could be commissioned - aren’t. The money is never spent. The money isn’t real. No one is robbed when a robot does the thing instead, because what it’s instead of, is the thing not happening.

                                      You cannot kvetch about this replacing all artists forever and still insist it’s a flash in the pan. The tech works. You can run it on your own computer, to-day. It plainly serves a desirable purpose. That alone makes comparisons to NFTs as spurious as those dolts insisting ‘people doubted the internet.’

                                      Any visions of this blowing over should’ve vanished when it became a porn faucet.

                                      Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #80

                                      The kinds of people who find replacing artists a "desirable purpose" do not belong in a creative community.

                                      M 1 Reply Last reply
                                      2
                                      • Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary

                                        The kinds of people who find replacing artists a "desirable purpose" do not belong in a creative community.

                                        M This user is from outside of this forum
                                        M This user is from outside of this forum
                                        mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #81

                                        Having art is desirable. Only self-professed haters think it’s replacing much of anything, versus what I just fucking explained - it makes things that otherwise would not get made. No money is lost if there is no money.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        -1
                                        • S sirblastalot@ttrpg.network

                                          I’ve been reading about the user revolt on the Twin Peaks subreddit calling for a ban on AI art. As best I can tell we don’t really have people posting AI stuff here yet, but I’m wondering if it would be a good idea to ban it before it becomes a problem. I’m soliciting feedback from y’all on this, please let me know what you prefer.

                                          MoahM This user is from outside of this forum
                                          MoahM This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Moah
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #82

                                          Ban that shit!

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          7

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