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  3. My study of old #folklore gets more and more relevant to current-day affairs.

My study of old #folklore gets more and more relevant to current-day affairs.

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folkloreautismchangelingsableismtylenol
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  • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert

    My study of old #folklore gets more and more relevant to current-day affairs.

    Example: All of these narratives about "Things That Cause #Autism " are basically recycled folk tales about #changelings .

    Right now, we are at the: "The child is WRONG somehow - the mother must have been careless!" stage.

    And it's only a very small step to: "My child is WRONG somehow! Thus, I must abuse it until I get my REAL child back - the one I always wanted!"

    The context changes, but the underlying narratives stay the same.

    #ableism #tylenol

    Dark Sheep ArtsD This user is from outside of this forum
    Dark Sheep ArtsD This user is from outside of this forum
    Dark Sheep Arts
    wrote last edited by
    #2

    @juergen_hubert

    This isn't the first time I've heard this -- I can't remember if it was Bristol Uni or Bath (the cities are right next to each other, and their unis held folklore conferences within a few months of each other, which made me think of siblings trying to one-up each other) but I swear I've heard a paper given about this at some point (for all I know, it was you! I didn't know I was Autistic at the time, so I was more concerned with worrying about giving my own paper afterwards!)

    Jürgen HubertJ 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Dark Sheep ArtsD Dark Sheep Arts

      @juergen_hubert

      This isn't the first time I've heard this -- I can't remember if it was Bristol Uni or Bath (the cities are right next to each other, and their unis held folklore conferences within a few months of each other, which made me think of siblings trying to one-up each other) but I swear I've heard a paper given about this at some point (for all I know, it was you! I didn't know I was Autistic at the time, so I was more concerned with worrying about giving my own paper afterwards!)

      Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
      Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
      Jürgen Hubert
      wrote last edited by
      #3

      @DarkSheepArts

      I haven't written a paper about this, but I feel I should probably write a blog post on this topic at some point.

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert

        My study of old #folklore gets more and more relevant to current-day affairs.

        Example: All of these narratives about "Things That Cause #Autism " are basically recycled folk tales about #changelings .

        Right now, we are at the: "The child is WRONG somehow - the mother must have been careless!" stage.

        And it's only a very small step to: "My child is WRONG somehow! Thus, I must abuse it until I get my REAL child back - the one I always wanted!"

        The context changes, but the underlying narratives stay the same.

        #ableism #tylenol

        Simon ZerafaS This user is from outside of this forum
        Simon ZerafaS This user is from outside of this forum
        Simon Zerafa
        wrote last edited by
        #4

        @juergen_hubert

        The point of this nonsense is that the US government can blame the parents so it's then 'not their problem' to help with.

        Jürgen HubertJ 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • Simon ZerafaS Simon Zerafa

          @juergen_hubert

          The point of this nonsense is that the US government can blame the parents so it's then 'not their problem' to help with.

          Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
          Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
          Jürgen Hubert
          wrote last edited by
          #5

          @simonzerafa

          Oh, I think it's horrible on multiple axes. Recycling old folkloric tropes are a means to an end - the horrible narratives are out there, so they are going to recycle them for their own purposes.

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert

            My study of old #folklore gets more and more relevant to current-day affairs.

            Example: All of these narratives about "Things That Cause #Autism " are basically recycled folk tales about #changelings .

            Right now, we are at the: "The child is WRONG somehow - the mother must have been careless!" stage.

            And it's only a very small step to: "My child is WRONG somehow! Thus, I must abuse it until I get my REAL child back - the one I always wanted!"

            The context changes, but the underlying narratives stay the same.

            #ableism #tylenol

            David PP This user is from outside of this forum
            David PP This user is from outside of this forum
            David P
            wrote last edited by
            #6

            @juergen_hubert

            You're a bit late saying it's only a "very small step" to abusing children to "cure" their autism.

            At least in the US, some conspiracy theorist parents, many of whom influenced by RFK Jnr and co are utterly convinced their child is somehow "broken".

            As an example, some of these misguided parents have abused their child/children by giving them bleach enemas.

            I shit you not

            #Trump #Abuse

            Link Preview Image
            The Parents Who Give Their Children Bleach Enemas to 'Cure' Them of Autism

            A substance called Miracle Mineral Solution has developed a cult following among a subset of the anti-vaxxer community, where it is believed to be a cure for everything from diabetes to AIDS.

            favicon

            VICE (www.vice.com)

            Jürgen HubertJ 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • David PP David P

              @juergen_hubert

              You're a bit late saying it's only a "very small step" to abusing children to "cure" their autism.

              At least in the US, some conspiracy theorist parents, many of whom influenced by RFK Jnr and co are utterly convinced their child is somehow "broken".

              As an example, some of these misguided parents have abused their child/children by giving them bleach enemas.

              I shit you not

              #Trump #Abuse

              Link Preview Image
              The Parents Who Give Their Children Bleach Enemas to 'Cure' Them of Autism

              A substance called Miracle Mineral Solution has developed a cult following among a subset of the anti-vaxxer community, where it is believed to be a cure for everything from diabetes to AIDS.

              favicon

              VICE (www.vice.com)

              Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
              Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
              Jürgen Hubert
              wrote last edited by
              #7

              @pewnack

              Oh, I am very well aware that the abuse is ongoing.

              I just wanted to highlight the process which is used to convince parents to abuse their children - or how parents convince themselves that it is "the right thing" to abuse their children.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert

                My study of old #folklore gets more and more relevant to current-day affairs.

                Example: All of these narratives about "Things That Cause #Autism " are basically recycled folk tales about #changelings .

                Right now, we are at the: "The child is WRONG somehow - the mother must have been careless!" stage.

                And it's only a very small step to: "My child is WRONG somehow! Thus, I must abuse it until I get my REAL child back - the one I always wanted!"

                The context changes, but the underlying narratives stay the same.

                #ableism #tylenol

                KatK This user is from outside of this forum
                KatK This user is from outside of this forum
                Kat
                wrote last edited by
                #8

                @juergen_hubert I've heard suggestions that "changelings" were autistic kids.
                Seems plausible to me.

                jennyM 1 Reply Last reply
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                • KatK Kat

                  @juergen_hubert I've heard suggestions that "changelings" were autistic kids.
                  Seems plausible to me.

                  jennyM This user is from outside of this forum
                  jennyM This user is from outside of this forum
                  jenny
                  wrote last edited by
                  #9

                  @KatS @juergen_hubert
                  that's literally what the post is saying

                  Jürgen HubertJ 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • jennyM jenny

                    @KatS @juergen_hubert
                    that's literally what the post is saying

                    Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                    Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                    Jürgen Hubert
                    wrote last edited by
                    #10

                    @Marmalade @KatS

                    Not _quite_, but it comes close. It's pretty clear that a lot of alleged "changelings" had some kind of disability or other medical condition, and the changeling narrative came up with supernatural explanations for their existence - and encouraged the abuse of such children.

                    The current hysteria focuses on autism instead of a broader set of medical conditions among children, but the general thrust is very similar.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert

                      My study of old #folklore gets more and more relevant to current-day affairs.

                      Example: All of these narratives about "Things That Cause #Autism " are basically recycled folk tales about #changelings .

                      Right now, we are at the: "The child is WRONG somehow - the mother must have been careless!" stage.

                      And it's only a very small step to: "My child is WRONG somehow! Thus, I must abuse it until I get my REAL child back - the one I always wanted!"

                      The context changes, but the underlying narratives stay the same.

                      #ableism #tylenol

                      Zazzoo 🇨🇦Z This user is from outside of this forum
                      Zazzoo 🇨🇦Z This user is from outside of this forum
                      Zazzoo 🇨🇦
                      wrote last edited by
                      #11

                      @juergen_hubert Their announcement would have been changelings for sure, only that explanation provides no avenue for blaming the mother for her behaviour.

                      Jürgen HubertJ 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • Zazzoo 🇨🇦Z Zazzoo 🇨🇦

                        @juergen_hubert Their announcement would have been changelings for sure, only that explanation provides no avenue for blaming the mother for her behaviour.

                        Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        Jürgen Hubert
                        wrote last edited by
                        #12

                        @zazzoo

                        Oh, the old folk tales still find ways of finding ways of blaming the mother from time to time - she didn't watch the child closely enough, she didn't get the child properly blessed with the right rituals, and so on.

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert

                          My study of old #folklore gets more and more relevant to current-day affairs.

                          Example: All of these narratives about "Things That Cause #Autism " are basically recycled folk tales about #changelings .

                          Right now, we are at the: "The child is WRONG somehow - the mother must have been careless!" stage.

                          And it's only a very small step to: "My child is WRONG somehow! Thus, I must abuse it until I get my REAL child back - the one I always wanted!"

                          The context changes, but the underlying narratives stay the same.

                          #ableism #tylenol

                          StardustB This user is from outside of this forum
                          StardustB This user is from outside of this forum
                          Stardust
                          wrote last edited by
                          #13

                          @juergen_hubert The hysteria around trans girls/women definitely reminds me of witch hunts.

                          Jürgen HubertJ 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert

                            My study of old #folklore gets more and more relevant to current-day affairs.

                            Example: All of these narratives about "Things That Cause #Autism " are basically recycled folk tales about #changelings .

                            Right now, we are at the: "The child is WRONG somehow - the mother must have been careless!" stage.

                            And it's only a very small step to: "My child is WRONG somehow! Thus, I must abuse it until I get my REAL child back - the one I always wanted!"

                            The context changes, but the underlying narratives stay the same.

                            #ableism #tylenol

                            SchroedingerS This user is from outside of this forum
                            SchroedingerS This user is from outside of this forum
                            Schroedinger
                            wrote last edited by
                            #14

                            @juergen_hubert Yes - we dismiss folklore too easily. It has a lot to teach us (if we can only seek to understand what they were saying).

                            Everything "different" had some explanation. But a lot of it was really "This is why this person has a superpower" more than "This is why they should be eliminated".

                            Jürgen HubertJ 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert

                              My study of old #folklore gets more and more relevant to current-day affairs.

                              Example: All of these narratives about "Things That Cause #Autism " are basically recycled folk tales about #changelings .

                              Right now, we are at the: "The child is WRONG somehow - the mother must have been careless!" stage.

                              And it's only a very small step to: "My child is WRONG somehow! Thus, I must abuse it until I get my REAL child back - the one I always wanted!"

                              The context changes, but the underlying narratives stay the same.

                              #ableism #tylenol

                              ChookMother 🇦🇺🦘A This user is from outside of this forum
                              ChookMother 🇦🇺🦘A This user is from outside of this forum
                              ChookMother 🇦🇺🦘
                              wrote last edited by
                              #15

                              @juergen_hubert Interesting. It seems to be a human trait that, when we don't know what's causing something, we attribute it to something we do know, that's plausible and fits with our current understanding of the world. It seems just too uncomfortable to stay with "I don't know." Then, once a person has devised an explanation that satisfies them, they sometimes don't want to give it up, not even in the face of evidence to the contrary.

                              Jürgen HubertJ 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • ChookMother 🇦🇺🦘A ChookMother 🇦🇺🦘

                                @juergen_hubert Interesting. It seems to be a human trait that, when we don't know what's causing something, we attribute it to something we do know, that's plausible and fits with our current understanding of the world. It seems just too uncomfortable to stay with "I don't know." Then, once a person has devised an explanation that satisfies them, they sometimes don't want to give it up, not even in the face of evidence to the contrary.

                                Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                Jürgen Hubert
                                wrote last edited by
                                #16

                                @anne_twain

                                Yeah, whatever narrative arrives firat and gives a name and shape to those fears is _very_ hard to dislodge.

                                Because then new information doesn't just fill in gaps in your knowledge, but threatens your worldview.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert

                                  My study of old #folklore gets more and more relevant to current-day affairs.

                                  Example: All of these narratives about "Things That Cause #Autism " are basically recycled folk tales about #changelings .

                                  Right now, we are at the: "The child is WRONG somehow - the mother must have been careless!" stage.

                                  And it's only a very small step to: "My child is WRONG somehow! Thus, I must abuse it until I get my REAL child back - the one I always wanted!"

                                  The context changes, but the underlying narratives stay the same.

                                  #ableism #tylenol

                                  C This user is from outside of this forum
                                  C This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Christine Malec
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #17

                                  @juergen_hubert And isn't another progression, the child's mother is a wich?

                                  Jürgen HubertJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert

                                    My study of old #folklore gets more and more relevant to current-day affairs.

                                    Example: All of these narratives about "Things That Cause #Autism " are basically recycled folk tales about #changelings .

                                    Right now, we are at the: "The child is WRONG somehow - the mother must have been careless!" stage.

                                    And it's only a very small step to: "My child is WRONG somehow! Thus, I must abuse it until I get my REAL child back - the one I always wanted!"

                                    The context changes, but the underlying narratives stay the same.

                                    #ableism #tylenol

                                    NoodlemazN This user is from outside of this forum
                                    NoodlemazN This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Noodlemaz
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #18

                                    @juergen_hubert to be fair that's already been happening for years. Just not out in the open I guess.
                                    Do you know about Kerri Rivera and her 'autism protocol' that parents internationally have followed? They tend to take their groups private bc people (rightly) call child protection on them.

                                    She repeats the lie that parasites cause autism. She repeats Jim Humble's claims that MMS (a 'miracle' solution that makes bleach when mixed at home) kills them. So...

                                    Jürgen HubertJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert

                                      My study of old #folklore gets more and more relevant to current-day affairs.

                                      Example: All of these narratives about "Things That Cause #Autism " are basically recycled folk tales about #changelings .

                                      Right now, we are at the: "The child is WRONG somehow - the mother must have been careless!" stage.

                                      And it's only a very small step to: "My child is WRONG somehow! Thus, I must abuse it until I get my REAL child back - the one I always wanted!"

                                      The context changes, but the underlying narratives stay the same.

                                      #ableism #tylenol

                                      Display NameA This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Display NameA This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Display Name
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #19

                                      @juergen_hubert folklore like religion evolved over centuries to keep the parts that worked. I'm not surprised. Mostly fascinated. Thank you. I'll follow you for that blog post you may (or may not) write.

                                      Jürgen HubertJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • NoodlemazN Noodlemaz

                                        @juergen_hubert to be fair that's already been happening for years. Just not out in the open I guess.
                                        Do you know about Kerri Rivera and her 'autism protocol' that parents internationally have followed? They tend to take their groups private bc people (rightly) call child protection on them.

                                        She repeats the lie that parasites cause autism. She repeats Jim Humble's claims that MMS (a 'miracle' solution that makes bleach when mixed at home) kills them. So...

                                        Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Jürgen Hubert
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #20

                                        @noodlemaz

                                        I did not know, but I am not surprised.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • StardustB Stardust

                                          @juergen_hubert The hysteria around trans girls/women definitely reminds me of witch hunts.

                                          Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Jürgen HubertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Jürgen Hubert
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #21

                                          @brightstardust

                                          You are not wrong. The one German folk tale I have come across that explicitly featured a nonbinary person ended with them being burned at the stake merely for not conforming to gender norms.

                                          Link Preview Image
                                          Sagenbuch des preussischen Staats

                                          favicon

                                          Google Books (books.google.de)

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