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  3. Quebec to ban public prayer in sweeping new secularism law

Quebec to ban public prayer in sweeping new secularism law

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Canada
canada
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  • V velindora@lemmy.cafe

    Praying in PUBLIC is like having sex in public. Don’t.

    G This user is from outside of this forum
    G This user is from outside of this forum
    grte@lemmy.ca
    wrote on last edited by
    #37

    Sorry, can you expand on the ways prayer is like sex? Are people praying with their dicks out in your vicinity?

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    • V velindora@lemmy.cafe

      I believe that public display of religion makes enough people feel uncomfortable that it was banned in Quebec.

      Let me ask you this, why do you feel that you should be able to practice your religion in plain view of everyone else when you make them uncomfortable? And a follow up question, don’t you think that you should be going to the designated spot for this?

      I certainly don’t think we should ban religion in general. That’s crazy talk. I just don’t think we should be forcing things onto other people. Do you?

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      Ginny [they/she]
      wrote on last edited by
      #38

      Do you feel that you should be able to hold hands with a same sex partner in plain view of everyone else when you make them uncomfortable?

      Do you feel that you should be able to be trans in plain view of everyone else when you make them uncomfortable?

      Maybe people being uncomfortable is not a good yardstick for determining what people can do in public.

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      • G grte@lemmy.ca

        Sorry, can you expand on the ways prayer is like sex? Are people praying with their dicks out in your vicinity?

        B This user is from outside of this forum
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        billythekid2@lemmy.ca
        wrote on last edited by
        #39

        It’s personal and private and children shouldn’t be exposed to it. It’s not wrong, and you can do it, but keep it away from me and mine.

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        • B billythekid2@lemmy.ca

          It’s personal and private and children shouldn’t be exposed to it. It’s not wrong, and you can do it, but keep it away from me and mine.

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          grte@lemmy.ca
          wrote on last edited by
          #40

          Have you considered being less nosy? Minding your business?

          I’m no lover of religion but I love this culture policing even less.

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          • J jaselle@lemmy.ca

            What bothers me about this perspective is the implicit assumption that everyone who thinks that public displays of religion should be banned is actually motivated by racism, rather than recognising that somebody can be against this for non-racist reasons.

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            croquette@sh.itjust.works
            wrote on last edited by
            #41

            The context made it so that people conflates the two.

            Medias and public debates pretty much always framed the issue of religion in public as a racist thing (in order to get more views) instead of only talking how the CAQ government targetted non-christian religions with their bill.

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            • J jaselle@lemmy.ca

              What bothers me about this perspective is the implicit assumption that everyone who thinks that public displays of religion should be banned is actually motivated by racism, rather than recognising that somebody can be against this for non-racist reasons.

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              yes_this_time@lemmy.world
              wrote on last edited by yes_this_time@lemmy.world
              #42

              Sure, you can be against it for authoritarian reasons as well. Disturbing.

              J C 2 Replies Last reply
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              • V velindora@lemmy.cafe

                Praying in PUBLIC is like having sex in public. Don’t.

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                punnyname@lemmy.world
                wrote on last edited by
                #43

                So someone praying before a meal is an equivalent obscenity?

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                • K khar21@lemmy.ca

                  Well I don’t feel very comfortable in a space like that personally.

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                  punnyname@lemmy.world
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #44

                  Then don’t be in that space?

                  So you feel the same when a bunch of people are meditating? Same action, really.

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                    greyeyedghost@lemmy.ca
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #45

                    I would say about the same number of people are offended by profanity in public as they are religious acts in public. Moreover, I would estimate the number who are offended by sex acts in public is much higher than either of these. So, for the sake of other people’s sensibilities, shall we ban public profanity?

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                    • Y yes_this_time@lemmy.world

                      Sure, you can be against it for authoritarian reasons as well. Disturbing.

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                      J This user is from outside of this forum
                      jaselle@lemmy.ca
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #46

                      I don’t really see how that’s related. Even if it were motivated by racism, that’d be equally authoritarian to any other motive, since authoritarianism is about ceding rights from individuals to the government and it doesn’t matter what the motivation for that is.

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                      • K khar21@lemmy.ca

                        Well I don’t feel very comfortable in a space like that personally.

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                        braydan@lemmy.world
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #47

                        live and let live. your discomfort is all your own.

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                        • Y yes_this_time@lemmy.world

                          Sure, you can be against it for authoritarian reasons as well. Disturbing.

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                          croquette@sh.itjust.works
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #48

                          Religion has been used time and time again to justify committing atrocities and still used as such today.

                          There is a legitimate debate to be had about the religion’s place in a society.

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                          • T tribblesbestfriend@startrek.website

                            That is not push on a non-racism way in Quebec. Like I said they don’t want to use the law equally, they want to use it specifically against Muslim.

                            And so far, from my perspective (that is a confirmation biais), no one debate the idea without a racist undertone

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                            croquette@sh.itjust.works
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #49

                            That’s my issue as well with the bill. Just look at the crucifix at the Assembly. They didn’t remove it, they just moved it outside the room. If the intent of the law was really to remove religion from the public space, it wouldn’t have been a debate about keeping the crucifix in the Assembly.

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                              croquette@sh.itjust.works
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #50

                              People are uncomfortable with it explicitly because religion made it so.

                              Monkeys will fuck right in front of us and not give a shit.

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                              • J jaselle@lemmy.ca

                                I don’t really see how that’s related. Even if it were motivated by racism, that’d be equally authoritarian to any other motive, since authoritarianism is about ceding rights from individuals to the government and it doesn’t matter what the motivation for that is.

                                Y This user is from outside of this forum
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                                yes_this_time@lemmy.world
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #51

                                Fair enough: regardless of whether racism is involved or not, there is an authoritarian bent to this law. In my opinion.

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                                • P punnyname@lemmy.world

                                  So someone praying before a meal is an equivalent obscenity?

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                                  V This user is from outside of this forum
                                  velindora@lemmy.cafe
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #52

                                  So, you and I both know that public praying isn’t just people being in public standing around praying without anyone knowing they’re praying.

                                  If a person went to a restaurant and started vocally praising Satan for this meal for an hour prior to eating it… yeah I bet they would make a lot of people uncomfortable. Not to mention the restaurant would refuse them service.

                                  What you want to do is justify bothering people in public spaces with your beliefs. If you can stand around in public thinking about your god without letting anyone else know you’re doing it, then no one would be uncomfortable.

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                                  • S Ginny [they/she]

                                    Do you feel that you should be able to hold hands with a same sex partner in plain view of everyone else when you make them uncomfortable?

                                    Do you feel that you should be able to be trans in plain view of everyone else when you make them uncomfortable?

                                    Maybe people being uncomfortable is not a good yardstick for determining what people can do in public.

                                    V This user is from outside of this forum
                                    V This user is from outside of this forum
                                    velindora@lemmy.cafe
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #53

                                    Do you feel that you should be able to hold hands with a same sex partner in plain view of everyone else when you make them uncomfortable?

                                    Yes, you can hold hands and you can hold your bible. You can also be a believer in god while also walking in public. You can even wear a rainbow or a crucifix to identify your own kind. But, keep your void damned pants on and don’t scream out praising your god.

                                    Do you feel that you should be able to be trans in plain view of everyone else when you make them uncomfortable?

                                    Yes trans is a person being who they are. Religion is a choice.

                                    Maybe people being uncomfortable is not a good yardstick for determining what people can do in public.

                                    I don’t disagree that “uncomfortable” is a slippery slope word. And while I completely agree with banning prayer in public—I probably wouldn’t vote for it. Unlike religious people, I dislike forcing my views on people, even if their entire existence is doing that.

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                                    • G grte@lemmy.ca

                                      Sorry, can you expand on the ways prayer is like sex? Are people praying with their dicks out in your vicinity?

                                      V This user is from outside of this forum
                                      V This user is from outside of this forum
                                      velindora@lemmy.cafe
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #54

                                      If you aren’t able to see how a comparison between two things does not create a combination of those two things, then you aren’t intelligent enough to converse in a polite manor. I’ve provided more details in my other comments, you can read those without interacting with me.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • V velindora@lemmy.cafe

                                        So, you and I both know that public praying isn’t just people being in public standing around praying without anyone knowing they’re praying.

                                        If a person went to a restaurant and started vocally praising Satan for this meal for an hour prior to eating it… yeah I bet they would make a lot of people uncomfortable. Not to mention the restaurant would refuse them service.

                                        What you want to do is justify bothering people in public spaces with your beliefs. If you can stand around in public thinking about your god without letting anyone else know you’re doing it, then no one would be uncomfortable.

                                        P This user is from outside of this forum
                                        P This user is from outside of this forum
                                        punnyname@lemmy.world
                                        wrote on last edited by punnyname@lemmy.world
                                        #55

                                        Then that’s not prayer, it’s being a public nuisance, a disturber of the peace. That’s a different crime / tort that I’m sure is already on the books.

                                        The prayer part is irrelevant.

                                        There’s a precedent like this in the US: enhancement laws

                                        They ruin lives, and don’t stop crime.

                                        V 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          acargitz
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #56

                                          Blocking traffic is an offense of its own. We don’t need this law.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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