Tired of YouTube calling all the shots?
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@atomicpoet @WTL That's good news
I don't have the spoons for another project, but I wish you good luck.
One technical hint: If you want to allow synchronization to YouTube, make sure to add a cron job that will update yt-dlp frequently. It's an arms race. You will also need to use it with a JavaScript engine: https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp/issues/14404
@gunchleoc @WTL I appreciate the well-wishes so much, and that technical advice is so much appreciated. -
@KitsuneVixi The main benefit is cost and sustainability. Video hosting is expensive, and most solo PeerTube servers shut down because one person is left carrying everything: storage, bandwidth, moderation, and their own time.
With a co-op, those costs and responsibilities are shared among member-owners, which makes the whole thing far more financially and operationally stable. The platform isnāt tied to one personās wallet or schedule, so itās much more resilient over the long run.
Self-hosting absolutely works if youāve got the resources and time, and some people will choose that. But a co-op offers a different path: shared infrastructure, shared governance, and a collective structure that makes it easier to keep things running sustainably.@atomicpoet I think I'll keep it in mind. Is there anywhere I can find more info?
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Tired of YouTube calling all the shots? Itās time to build something betterātogether.
Hereās the slide deck for a proposal to launch a PeerTube co-op.
Right now, there are three of us ready to get this off the ground. Iām looking for two more founder-members to bring us up to five. With that core, weāll have the resources to make a PeerTube server not just viable, but sustainableāand built to last.
This isnāt about joining someone elseās platform. Itās about creating one. As a founder, youāll have a real voice in governance and a direct hand in shaping content policies, by-laws, moderation rules, and more.
Weāre staying early stage by design. This is the moment to get in, shape the vision, and build something that actually challenges the status quo. If that excites you, message me.
Slidedeck in .odp format: https://drive.proton.me/urls/ZRRBNK4XBM#RmYXrnhKXx3C
Slidedeck in .pptx format: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1LgJvocTe6hH8bCw-yy-2o5QWSYCABkyL/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=108163627088117284715&rtpof=true&sd=true
@atomicpoet I'd throw in a hundred bucks to help with hosting. I have way too much other stuff on my plate now to help found it though. #BC
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@atomicpoet I think I'll keep it in mind. Is there anywhere I can find more info?
@KitsuneVixi Not yet. Weāre in the beginning stages. -
@atomicpoet I'd throw in a hundred bucks to help with hosting. I have way too much other stuff on my plate now to help found it though. #BC
@ddr Thatās awesome. Letās revisit after this gets established. -
@atomicpoet First of all, I should mention that I'm on Peertube, but it's awful. It doesn't work well for many reasons. One of them is the servers that open and close, leaving people stranded. The problem is money; you need a lot, no, a huge amount of money.
@juancho_me @atomicpoet
https://apps.yunohost.org/app/peertube
I assume bandwidth is the rate limiting step for those hosting off their own domestic internet connection!#peertube #yunohost #homelab #video #streaming #p2p #selfhosting #degoogle
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@juancho_me @atomicpoet
https://apps.yunohost.org/app/peertube
I assume bandwidth is the rate limiting step for those hosting off their own domestic internet connection!#peertube #yunohost #homelab #video #streaming #p2p #selfhosting #degoogle
doboprobodyne Juancho ExactlyāPeerTubeās P2P functionality helps offset some of the egress costs, especially when multiple viewers are involved, since they share chunks of the stream with each other.
But even with that, hosting video is still very cost prohibitive for solo operators. Egress adds up quickly once you have more than a handful of viewers, and most domestic upstream connections just canāt handle sustained traffic.
Thatās exactly why weāre looking at this through a co-op modelāpooling resources makes it possible to handle those costs collectively, rather than leaving individuals to carry the entire load on their own.
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Eelco Thatās a fair pointābut this isnāt about liking or disliking Google, or about picking the āperfectā tool from day one.
Itās about building something through consensus. Iām not the one setting tool policy. This is a co-op, which means decisions like what platforms or software to use arenāt mine to dictate.
If you want a say in thatāwhether itās LibreOffice, Nextcloud, or anything elseāthat happens collectively, at the table, as a member-owner. Personally, I believe that process makes it better.
@atomicpoet @eelcoa I had the same question.
If I were a member I would advocate using open source tools for internal communications. I'm not a content creator now, but I was thinking of starting a YouTube channel. I don't anticipate it being popular enough to monetize it, so the $0 financial cost was a big draw. But I love the idea of co-ops and hate the idea of handing reams of free data over to Google in return for hosting my vanity project, so I might be interested. It's not a huge buy-in. -
@atomicpoet @eelcoa I had the same question.
If I were a member I would advocate using open source tools for internal communications. I'm not a content creator now, but I was thinking of starting a YouTube channel. I don't anticipate it being popular enough to monetize it, so the $0 financial cost was a big draw. But I love the idea of co-ops and hate the idea of handing reams of free data over to Google in return for hosting my vanity project, so I might be interested. It's not a huge buy-in.@cswalker21 @eelcoa Thatās exactly the kind of thinking we need. The point isnāt to compete with Google dollar-for-dollarāitās to build something where creators own the ground they stand on.
The buy-in is intentionally low because this should be viable for people like you: folks who want to experiment, maybe grow into something bigger, without feeding the ad machine in the meantime.
And I can say for sure: I absolutely want to use open source tools for internal comms. It just makes sense for what weāre trying to build. -
Tired of YouTube calling all the shots? Itās time to build something betterātogether.
Hereās the slide deck for a proposal to launch a PeerTube co-op.
Right now, there are three of us ready to get this off the ground. Iām looking for two more founder-members to bring us up to five. With that core, weāll have the resources to make a PeerTube server not just viable, but sustainableāand built to last.
This isnāt about joining someone elseās platform. Itās about creating one. As a founder, youāll have a real voice in governance and a direct hand in shaping content policies, by-laws, moderation rules, and more.
Weāre staying early stage by design. This is the moment to get in, shape the vision, and build something that actually challenges the status quo. If that excites you, message me.
Slidedeck in .odp format: https://drive.proton.me/urls/ZRRBNK4XBM#RmYXrnhKXx3C
Slidedeck in .pptx format: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1LgJvocTe6hH8bCw-yy-2o5QWSYCABkyL/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=108163627088117284715&rtpof=true&sd=true
@atomicpoet I would read your proposal, but not from google.
I don't understand why you would use google docs when your proposing an alternative to a google video service...
ā
ļø -
@atomicpoet I would read your proposal, but not from google.
I don't understand why you would use google docs when your proposing an alternative to a google video service...āļø@greenpete Hereās the FAQ which contains even more information than whatās n the slide deck.
https://atomicpoet.org/notice/Ayi0LNA97iNUa8cdlo -
@greenpete Hereās the FAQ which contains even more information than whatās n the slide deck.
https://atomicpoet.org/notice/Ayi0LNA97iNUa8cdloFAQ? It seems to be simply the thread to which I replied to..?
To be clear, I like the idea, and am interested in there being a serious alternative to YouTube.
I also believe in coops.
A such I am interested in participating in something like this.
The seed has less likelihood of germinating, if the infrastructure I would like to see replaced, (yes, I know that's unlikely) is used to platform the replacement. -
FAQ? It seems to be simply the thread to which I replied to..?
To be clear, I like the idea, and am interested in there being a serious alternative to YouTube.
I also believe in coops.
A such I am interested in participating in something like this.
The seed has less likelihood of germinating, if the infrastructure I would like to see replaced, (yes, I know that's unlikely) is used to platform the replacement.Greenpete :dustSprite: Sorry, this is the FAQ:
Chris Trottier (@atomicpoet@atomicpoet.org)
šŗ PeerTube Co-op FAQ: Building a Member-Owned Alternative to YouTubeThe future of video doesnāt belong to platforms. It belongs to people.Weāre building a PeerTube co-op: a member-owned, democratic...
(atomicpoet.org)
Iāve explained elsewhere why Iām using Google Docs for now: I donāt have access to a NextCloud server, and I havenāt tested the other options yet. And just because something is libre doesnāt mean itās āfree as in beer.ā
If you want different infrastructure, the path is clear: join as a member-owner and help fund it. Nothingās set in stone. This isnāt a dictatorship. With consensus, we can absolutely use something else.
Better yetāif your passion is building a co-op alternative to Google Drive or Docs, I genuinely encourage you to make that happen.
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Greenpete :dustSprite: Sorry, this is the FAQ:
Chris Trottier (@atomicpoet@atomicpoet.org)
šŗ PeerTube Co-op FAQ: Building a Member-Owned Alternative to YouTubeThe future of video doesnāt belong to platforms. It belongs to people.Weāre building a PeerTube co-op: a member-owned, democratic...
(atomicpoet.org)
Iāve explained elsewhere why Iām using Google Docs for now: I donāt have access to a NextCloud server, and I havenāt tested the other options yet. And just because something is libre doesnāt mean itās āfree as in beer.ā
If you want different infrastructure, the path is clear: join as a member-owner and help fund it. Nothingās set in stone. This isnāt a dictatorship. With consensus, we can absolutely use something else.
Better yetāif your passion is building a co-op alternative to Google Drive or Docs, I genuinely encourage you to make that happen.
@atomicpoet Thanks, that is interesting.
I assume it's possible to be a member without uploading, and thus not pay the monthly fee, just the membership fee?Have you heard of https://riseup.net/ ?
Not the same, but a good resource for people that are ethically opposed to the big platforms. -
@atomicpoet Thanks, that is interesting.
I assume it's possible to be a member without uploading, and thus not pay the monthly fee, just the membership fee?Have you heard of https://riseup.net/ ?
Not the same, but a good resource for people that are ethically opposed to the big platforms.Greenpete :dustSprite: I havenāt modelled a scenario for members to not upload and therefore not pay a monthly subscription. Itās something to consider.
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Tired of YouTube calling all the shots? Itās time to build something betterātogether.
Hereās the slide deck for a proposal to launch a PeerTube co-op.
Right now, there are three of us ready to get this off the ground. Iām looking for two more founder-members to bring us up to five. With that core, weāll have the resources to make a PeerTube server not just viable, but sustainableāand built to last.
This isnāt about joining someone elseās platform. Itās about creating one. As a founder, youāll have a real voice in governance and a direct hand in shaping content policies, by-laws, moderation rules, and more.
Weāre staying early stage by design. This is the moment to get in, shape the vision, and build something that actually challenges the status quo. If that excites you, message me.
Slidedeck in .odp format: https://drive.proton.me/urls/ZRRBNK4XBM#RmYXrnhKXx3C
Slidedeck in .pptx format: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1LgJvocTe6hH8bCw-yy-2o5QWSYCABkyL/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=108163627088117284715&rtpof=true&sd=true
@atomicpoet oh that is exciting. we have too much on our plate to be directly involved, though we're tempted because you're local. good luck, and please keep us posted on how it goes.
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@atomicpoet oh that is exciting. we have too much on our plate to be directly involved, though we're tempted because you're local. good luck, and please keep us posted on how it goes.
@ireneista Totally understandableāeveryoneās plates are full these days. Iāll definitely keep you posted as things progress. And who knowsā¦ maybe down the road, when the co-opās more established, thereāll be a way to collaborate that fits your bandwidth. -
Tired of YouTube calling all the shots? Itās time to build something betterātogether.
Hereās the slide deck for a proposal to launch a PeerTube co-op.
Right now, there are three of us ready to get this off the ground. Iām looking for two more founder-members to bring us up to five. With that core, weāll have the resources to make a PeerTube server not just viable, but sustainableāand built to last.
This isnāt about joining someone elseās platform. Itās about creating one. As a founder, youāll have a real voice in governance and a direct hand in shaping content policies, by-laws, moderation rules, and more.
Weāre staying early stage by design. This is the moment to get in, shape the vision, and build something that actually challenges the status quo. If that excites you, message me.
Slidedeck in .odp format: https://drive.proton.me/urls/ZRRBNK4XBM#RmYXrnhKXx3C
Slidedeck in .pptx format: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1LgJvocTe6hH8bCw-yy-2o5QWSYCABkyL/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=108163627088117284715&rtpof=true&sd=true
@atomicpoet I have thought a little about this previously and came up with an objection to a content creator co op.
The potential for different audience sizes in a creator co op is nigh unbounded. In the event of extreme success a co op member can be lured by for-profit models, leaving the co op to absorb start up costs but paradoxically not have any security of income in the event their members are successful. You can try to manage this with governance sure, but maybe there are alternative models.
By contrast a consumer co op, or watcher co op in that the peer relationship can be the focus of collaboration, can be that lure through crowdfunding grants on the terms of the audience. The snowdrift funding model is an idea I find compelling, for example, and I think it would suit a content consumer co op quite well.
Do you have any thoughts about crowd funding a vehicle for a consumer co op, and seeding it with content creators want to make, rather than relying on creators to wear platform risk as well as creative risks? A co op art collective patronised by a much larger audience co op feels like a more sustainable idea. The art collective providing leadership to the consumer co op even makes sense in that model.
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@atomicpoet I have thought a little about this previously and came up with an objection to a content creator co op.
The potential for different audience sizes in a creator co op is nigh unbounded. In the event of extreme success a co op member can be lured by for-profit models, leaving the co op to absorb start up costs but paradoxically not have any security of income in the event their members are successful. You can try to manage this with governance sure, but maybe there are alternative models.
By contrast a consumer co op, or watcher co op in that the peer relationship can be the focus of collaboration, can be that lure through crowdfunding grants on the terms of the audience. The snowdrift funding model is an idea I find compelling, for example, and I think it would suit a content consumer co op quite well.
Do you have any thoughts about crowd funding a vehicle for a consumer co op, and seeding it with content creators want to make, rather than relying on creators to wear platform risk as well as creative risks? A co op art collective patronised by a much larger audience co op feels like a more sustainable idea. The art collective providing leadership to the consumer co op even makes sense in that model.
@octarine_wiggle Thatās a really thoughtful comment, and I think you raise some good points about governance, scale, and platform risk.
That said, I think thereās a bit of a misconception in how youāre framing the co-op model. A co-op isnāt a non-profit or a crowdfunding vehicle. Itās a for-profit businessāthe difference is who owns and benefits from it. In a co-op, the surplus goes back to members (or gets reinvested), rather than to outside shareholders.
So if a creator joins a co-op, theyāre not leaving a for-profit model for a non-profit oneātheyāre moving from a shareholder-owned for-profit to a member-owned for-profit. The incentives can actually be stronger, since the platformās value accrues to its members instead of external investors.
Also, this doesnāt have to be ācreator vs consumer.ā Multi-stakeholder co-ops exist, where different groups (e.g., creators, viewers, workers) each have roles and representation. That structure can handle the kinds of scale and governance questions youāre raising without defaulting to a grant-funded or donation-based model. -
@octarine_wiggle Thatās a really thoughtful comment, and I think you raise some good points about governance, scale, and platform risk.
That said, I think thereās a bit of a misconception in how youāre framing the co-op model. A co-op isnāt a non-profit or a crowdfunding vehicle. Itās a for-profit businessāthe difference is who owns and benefits from it. In a co-op, the surplus goes back to members (or gets reinvested), rather than to outside shareholders.
So if a creator joins a co-op, theyāre not leaving a for-profit model for a non-profit oneātheyāre moving from a shareholder-owned for-profit to a member-owned for-profit. The incentives can actually be stronger, since the platformās value accrues to its members instead of external investors.
Also, this doesnāt have to be ācreator vs consumer.ā Multi-stakeholder co-ops exist, where different groups (e.g., creators, viewers, workers) each have roles and representation. That structure can handle the kinds of scale and governance questions youāre raising without defaulting to a grant-funded or donation-based model.@atomicpoet I think that's fair and I shouldn't have framed it as for-profit vs non-profit. I definitely think that cooperative commerce is a strong attitude. I wonder if there's a more focused mission then to try out some of these ideas rather than need them to all come together at the same time. Maybe a YouTube editor co op that curates content on a moderated platform? It seems really prevalent that a successful creator will advertise a private discord or Patreon where early access to the editorial process is monetized. Taking that to a platform scale could be interesting, and putting that back onto the more open web is a virtue in itself.
I hope to see you succeed in whatever you choose to do. I am keen on a consumer co op, and can envision a day when it simply becomes inevitable due to the obvious success of prior models.
