Tired of YouTube calling all the shots?

Chris Trottier

@cswalker21 @eelcoa That’s exactly the kind of thinking we need. The point isn’t to compete with Google dollar-for-dollar—it’s to build something where creators own the ground they stand on.

The buy-in is intentionally low because this should be viable for people like you: folks who want to experiment, maybe grow into something bigger, without feeding the ad machine in the meantime.

And I can say for sure: I absolutely want to use open source tools for internal comms. It just makes sense for what we’re trying to build.

Greenpete :dustSprite:

@atomicpoet I would read your proposal, but not from google.
I don't understand why you would use google docs when your proposing an alternative to a google video service... ‍️

Chris Trottier

@greenpete Here’s the FAQ which contains even more information than what’s n the slide deck.

https://atomicpoet.org/notice/Ayi0LNA97iNUa8cdlo

Greenpete :dustSprite:

@atomicpoet

FAQ? It seems to be simply the thread to which I replied to..?

To be clear, I like the idea, and am interested in there being a serious alternative to YouTube.
I also believe in coops.
A such I am interested in participating in something like this.
The seed has less likelihood of germinating, if the infrastructure I would like to see replaced, (yes, I know that's unlikely) is used to platform the replacement.

Chris Trottier

Greenpete :dustSprite: Sorry, this is the FAQ:

Chris Trottier (@atomicpoet@atomicpoet.org)

📺 PeerTube Co-op FAQ: Building a Member-Owned Alternative to YouTubeThe future of video doesn’t belong to platforms. It belongs to people.We’re building a PeerTube co-op: a member-owned, democratic...

(atomicpoet.org)

I’ve explained elsewhere why I’m using Google Docs for now: I don’t have access to a NextCloud server, and I haven’t tested the other options yet. And just because something is libre doesn’t mean it’s “free as in beer.”

If you want different infrastructure, the path is clear: join as a member-owner and help fund it. Nothing’s set in stone. This isn’t a dictatorship. With consensus, we can absolutely use something else.

Better yet—if your passion is building a co-op alternative to Google Drive or Docs, I genuinely encourage you to make that happen.

Greenpete :dustSprite:

@atomicpoet Thanks, that is interesting.
I assume it's possible to be a member without uploading, and thus not pay the monthly fee, just the membership fee?

Have you heard of https://riseup.net/ ?
Not the same, but a good resource for people that are ethically opposed to the big platforms.

Chris Trottier

Greenpete :dustSprite: I haven’t modelled a scenario for members to not upload and therefore not pay a monthly subscription. It’s something to consider.

Irenes (many)

@atomicpoet oh that is exciting. we have too much on our plate to be directly involved, though we're tempted because you're local. good luck, and please keep us posted on how it goes.

Chris Trottier

@ireneista Totally understandable—everyone’s plates are full these days. I’ll definitely keep you posted as things progress. And who knows… maybe down the road, when the co-op’s more established, there’ll be a way to collaborate that fits your bandwidth.

8

@atomicpoet I have thought a little about this previously and came up with an objection to a content creator co op.

The potential for different audience sizes in a creator co op is nigh unbounded. In the event of extreme success a co op member can be lured by for-profit models, leaving the co op to absorb start up costs but paradoxically not have any security of income in the event their members are successful. You can try to manage this with governance sure, but maybe there are alternative models.

By contrast a consumer co op, or watcher co op in that the peer relationship can be the focus of collaboration, can be that lure through crowdfunding grants on the terms of the audience. The snowdrift funding model is an idea I find compelling, for example, and I think it would suit a content consumer co op quite well.

Do you have any thoughts about crowd funding a vehicle for a consumer co op, and seeding it with content creators want to make, rather than relying on creators to wear platform risk as well as creative risks? A co op art collective patronised by a much larger audience co op feels like a more sustainable idea. The art collective providing leadership to the consumer co op even makes sense in that model.

Chris Trottier

@octarine_wiggle That’s a really thoughtful comment, and I think you raise some good points about governance, scale, and platform risk.

That said, I think there’s a bit of a misconception in how you’re framing the co-op model. A co-op isn’t a non-profit or a crowdfunding vehicle. It’s a for-profit business—the difference is who owns and benefits from it. In a co-op, the surplus goes back to members (or gets reinvested), rather than to outside shareholders.

So if a creator joins a co-op, they’re not leaving a for-profit model for a non-profit one—they’re moving from a shareholder-owned for-profit to a member-owned for-profit. The incentives can actually be stronger, since the platform’s value accrues to its members instead of external investors.

Also, this doesn’t have to be “creator vs consumer.” Multi-stakeholder co-ops exist, where different groups (e.g., creators, viewers, workers) each have roles and representation. That structure can handle the kinds of scale and governance questions you’re raising without defaulting to a grant-funded or donation-based model.

8

@atomicpoet I think that's fair and I shouldn't have framed it as for-profit vs non-profit. I definitely think that cooperative commerce is a strong attitude. I wonder if there's a more focused mission then to try out some of these ideas rather than need them to all come together at the same time. Maybe a YouTube editor co op that curates content on a moderated platform? It seems really prevalent that a successful creator will advertise a private discord or Patreon where early access to the editorial process is monetized. Taking that to a platform scale could be interesting, and putting that back onto the more open web is a virtue in itself.

I hope to see you succeed in whatever you choose to do. I am keen on a consumer co op, and can envision a day when it simply becomes inevitable due to the obvious success of prior models.

Chris Trottier

@octarine_wiggle That’s a great clarification, and I really appreciate the way you reframed it here.

I actually see what we’re doing as laying the groundwork for exactly that kind of experimentation down the road. A multi-stakeholder co-op gives us the structure to host those kinds of models—whether it’s a creator-run editorial collective, a consumer co-op, or something entirely new that emerges once the foundation is in place.

Right now the focus is on building a legal, financial, and governance framework that’s stable enough to support whatever creative directions come next. That’s where a co-op really shines: it creates the shared container, and then the people inside get to shape what happens.

Kevin Boyd (he/him) 🇨🇦

@atomicpoet I'm in, sign me up.

I am currently the membership director of a non-profit co-op ( @SookeSailingCoop ) and pretty busy with all my hobby projects, but some of those projects are related to co-ops in general, and some of them are related to video production in general, so this is of great interest to me & I'd be happy to help with founding.

Chris Trottier

Kevin Boyd (he/him) 🇨🇦 Awesome to hear, Kevin!

I’ll be sending out a full update to prospective founding members tomorrow night with the next steps. Want me to add you to the mailing list so you don’t miss it?

Robin Monks :verified:

@atomicpoet Interested in this; is there a place to sign up?

Chris Trottier

@rpm If you’re interested in becoming a founding member-owner, DM me your email and I’ll add you to the mailing list for further developments. Things are moving quickly, and you’ll get the key updates as we take the next steps.

Wandering Adventure Party

Tired of YouTube calling all the shots?

Chris Trottier (@atomicpoet@atomicpoet.org)

Chris Trottier (@atomicpoet@atomicpoet.org)