1/ Since @JohannaMakesGames was curious, here is a thread on assorted "Underworlds" from German folklore.
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1/ Since @JohannaMakesGames was curious, here is a thread on assorted "Underworlds" from German folklore. This will be a slow-moving thread since I need to go through my backlog of translated folk tales and put them on my wiki.
One iconic type of "Underworld" is one inhabited by a "Sleeping Ruler" - a former emperor, king, or other leader who is neither dead nor alive, but sleeps beneath the mountain until he is needed once more.
#folklore #death #underworld
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/Category:Sleeping_Ruler2/ This kind of story has a lot of precedence - in old Germanic beliefs, the "afterlife" of the departed was not in some distant dimension, but beneath the hills and mountains where they would carry on with their "lives". And remnants of this belief are widespread - in this tale from Styria, the distant ancestors of the modern-day inhabitants likewise still lived within the mountains of the region.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/The_Ghosts_of_the_Old_Noricans
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2/ This kind of story has a lot of precedence - in old Germanic beliefs, the "afterlife" of the departed was not in some distant dimension, but beneath the hills and mountains where they would carry on with their "lives". And remnants of this belief are widespread - in this tale from Styria, the distant ancestors of the modern-day inhabitants likewise still lived within the mountains of the region.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/The_Ghosts_of_the_Old_Noricans
3/ With increasing Christianization, these realms beneath the mountain were changed from regular afterlives into places of punishment - like in this tale from Valais, where the Underworld initially seems to be a nice place to stay, but the truth is far more sinister.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/The_Goatherd_Boy_in_the_Illgraben
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3/ With increasing Christianization, these realms beneath the mountain were changed from regular afterlives into places of punishment - like in this tale from Valais, where the Underworld initially seems to be a nice place to stay, but the truth is far more sinister.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/The_Goatherd_Boy_in_the_Illgraben
4/ The Brothers Grimm, too, reported on such a "place of purgatory" within a mountain - the Zobtenberg or Ślęża in Silesia.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/The_Men_in_Zottenberg_Mountain
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4/ The Brothers Grimm, too, reported on such a "place of purgatory" within a mountain - the Zobtenberg or Ślęża in Silesia.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/The_Men_in_Zottenberg_Mountain
5/ Of course, the ultimate "Realm Below" in Christian mythology is Hell itself. From time to time, people reported gateways to this dismal place opening up on mountainsides - and they would always report seeing someone in the flames who (in the opinion of the storyteller) really deserved it.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/Cart_Drivers_Witness_a_Mirage
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5/ Of course, the ultimate "Realm Below" in Christian mythology is Hell itself. From time to time, people reported gateways to this dismal place opening up on mountainsides - and they would always report seeing someone in the flames who (in the opinion of the storyteller) really deserved it.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/Cart_Drivers_Witness_a_Mirage
These are great ! I used to read the original, unexpurgated Grimm's stories to my children. They always liked the most horrible stories the most.
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5/ Of course, the ultimate "Realm Below" in Christian mythology is Hell itself. From time to time, people reported gateways to this dismal place opening up on mountainsides - and they would always report seeing someone in the flames who (in the opinion of the storyteller) really deserved it.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/Cart_Drivers_Witness_a_Mirage
6/ Sometimes it was even possible to visit Hell, at least for a time.
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These are great ! I used to read the original, unexpurgated Grimm's stories to my children. They always liked the most horrible stories the most.
Indeed, although their fairy tale collection offers just a bare glimpse - there are tens and perhaps hundreds of thousands of German folk tales which were published over the course of the last few centuries. And many describe physical locations you can actually visit, even today!
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6/ Sometimes it was even possible to visit Hell, at least for a time.
@juergen_hubert That doesn't sound like fun Jurgen.
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@juergen_hubert That doesn't sound like fun Jurgen.
Debt collection rarely is.
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6/ Sometimes it was even possible to visit Hell, at least for a time.
7/ In German folklore, the separation between the not-so-dearly departed and other kinds of spirits could become rather blurred.
A good example was the dwarves. They usually dwelled beneath hills and mountains - just like those abodes of the dead we talked about. And in the lowlands of northern Germany, where hills and mountains are scarce, they often lived in - barrow mounds.
I suspect that this was not an accident.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/Subterraneans_near_Zahren
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7/ In German folklore, the separation between the not-so-dearly departed and other kinds of spirits could become rather blurred.
A good example was the dwarves. They usually dwelled beneath hills and mountains - just like those abodes of the dead we talked about. And in the lowlands of northern Germany, where hills and mountains are scarce, they often lived in - barrow mounds.
I suspect that this was not an accident.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/Subterraneans_near_Zahren
8/ The realms of the dwarves were accessible to mortals, if they took the right turn - or the wrong turn.
And if they dug too deeply end reached these realms, there could be unforeseen consequences.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/The_Realm_of_the_Subterraneans
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8/ The realms of the dwarves were accessible to mortals, if they took the right turn - or the wrong turn.
And if they dug too deeply end reached these realms, there could be unforeseen consequences.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/The_Realm_of_the_Subterraneans
9/ Mortals rarely rescued someone from such subterranean dwarf realms. They could earn great rewards - but upon their return they might find that many years or even centuries had passed.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/A_Girl_Ventures_into_the_Realm_of_the_Subterraneans
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9/ Mortals rarely rescued someone from such subterranean dwarf realms. They could earn great rewards - but upon their return they might find that many years or even centuries had passed.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/A_Girl_Ventures_into_the_Realm_of_the_Subterraneans
10/ There are some oddities when it comes to Underworlds, too - like this strange place where "everyone's life light burns".
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10/ There are some oddities when it comes to Underworlds, too - like this strange place where "everyone's life light burns".
11/ German folklore also had no shortage of sunken castles or other sunken places which might or might not be accessible to mortals of later times.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/The_Accursed_Castle_of_Gammelin
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11/ German folklore also had no shortage of sunken castles or other sunken places which might or might not be accessible to mortals of later times.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/The_Accursed_Castle_of_Gammelin
12/ My favorite among these is the Lost City of Pontius Pilate, which supposedly rests in the ground near Forchheim (close to the region where I grew up in). But one day it shall rise again!
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12/ My favorite among these is the Lost City of Pontius Pilate, which supposedly rests in the ground near Forchheim (close to the region where I grew up in). But one day it shall rise again!
13/ A special mention goes on to the folkloric Venetians, who certainly knew how to access the Underworld and its riches.
And their "Land of the Venetians" often took on aspects of a Faerie Otherworld.
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Indeed, although their fairy tale collection offers just a bare glimpse - there are tens and perhaps hundreds of thousands of German folk tales which were published over the course of the last few centuries. And many describe physical locations you can actually visit, even today!
My father collected stories in Niger and Nigeria in the 1960s. Several of them turned up in the Joel Chandler Harris stories, collected among the American slave cultures.
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My father collected stories in Niger and Nigeria in the 1960s. Several of them turned up in the Joel Chandler Harris stories, collected among the American slave cultures.
A lot of stories go back a lot further than we think. Although often hard to prove how old they really are.
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13/ A special mention goes on to the folkloric Venetians, who certainly knew how to access the Underworld and its riches.
And their "Land of the Venetians" often took on aspects of a Faerie Otherworld.
14/ Another sometimes-dweller of the Underworld were the "Blessed Maidens" (sometimes called "Wild Women") of the Austrian Alps. Those mortals who visited them in their grottoes were often changed by the experience - and not always for the better.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/The_Three_Blessed_Maidens_near_Morin_in_the_%C3%96tztal_Valley
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14/ Another sometimes-dweller of the Underworld were the "Blessed Maidens" (sometimes called "Wild Women") of the Austrian Alps. Those mortals who visited them in their grottoes were often changed by the experience - and not always for the better.
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/The_Three_Blessed_Maidens_near_Morin_in_the_%C3%96tztal_Valley
15/ Of further interest to both the people living at the time and modern #ttrpg players were the numerous subterranean "treasure vaults" - caves and chambers filled with riches, for the taking of those who were able to overcome the guardians.
Though some of these treasure guardians took on some unexpected forms.
