Reminder that in the UK in 1900, before mass vaccination for childhood diseases began, 20% of all babies died before their fifth birthday (from diseases we currently vaccinate them against).
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@petealexharris It is, alas, nowhere near 99%.
The distinction may have operational utility in opposing their policies; for example, the "all these babies will die! look at the tombstones in old graveyards!" response to anti-vax policies functions to confirm the objectives and purposes of the anti-vax movement. It's about killing babies; that's what it wants. Telling its members that babies will die is not an effective means of dissuasion.
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@cstross People who are anti-vaccination for whatever fruitloops reason need to spend some quality time in old churchyards looking at monuments to dead children put up by bereft parents.
@Infoseepage @cstross Unfortunately, at least in America, anti-vax parents are so brainwashed that if they lose a child they either say "it's God's will, there's nothing we could have done anyway" or "they died of something else that doctors say, essential oils totally work."
By definition these people ignore facts and reality. -
@cstross …and infant mortality is already much higher in the US than in any other comparable country.
That's been true since always. I arrived mid-eighties, and it was a topic in nursing school then.
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@cstross https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Alexander_(polio_survivor)
Considering he died not that long ago means there are polio survivors probably still floating around, so it isn’t that long ago polio was killing people. I also remember my mom talking about her mom taking them and standing in line for the vaccine when it came out because she knew how deadly it was.
The vaccine arrived when I was in elementary school. My parents no longer sent us to the country for the summer to protect us.
Every grade had a child in calipers when I was growing up.
The vaccine is a secular miracle.
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@Infoseepage @cstross Unfortunately, at least in America, anti-vax parents are so brainwashed that if they lose a child they either say "it's God's will, there's nothing we could have done anyway" or "they died of something else that doctors say, essential oils totally work."
By definition these people ignore facts and reality.@aSweetGentleman @cstross My aunt convinced my diabetic uncle that what he needed was a series of wacky diets and to make sure to wear his magnetic bead bracelet instead of regular glucose monitoring and insulin. He died by inches having bits cut off him regularly. If he'd listened to normal doctors instead of engaged with quackery, it is likely he'd still be alive now. Worst decline and death I've personally witnessed. I have a raging hate for snake oil peddlers.
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@aSweetGentleman @cstross My aunt convinced my diabetic uncle that what he needed was a series of wacky diets and to make sure to wear his magnetic bead bracelet instead of regular glucose monitoring and insulin. He died by inches having bits cut off him regularly. If he'd listened to normal doctors instead of engaged with quackery, it is likely he'd still be alive now. Worst decline and death I've personally witnessed. I have a raging hate for snake oil peddlers.
@Infoseepage @cstross Same.
And I've 0 tolerance for parents who literally abuse their children just to prove something: "I do my own research" "It's a government conspiracy" "It's MY child I do whatever I want with it"... -
RE: https://mastodon.laurenweinstein.org/@lauren/115963873612884664
Reminder that in the UK in 1900, before mass vaccination for childhood diseases began, 20% of all babies died before their fifth birthday (from diseases we currently vaccinate them against).
RFK jr's appointee wants to kill roughly 20% of all newborn Americans "to improve the breed" or something.
(Not including those paralysed for life by polio.)
@cstross Well, one way to improve the GDP per capita…
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@cstross People who are anti-vaccination for whatever fruitloops reason need to spend some quality time in old churchyards looking at monuments to dead children put up by bereft parents.
@Infoseepage @cstross Wandering through a local cemetery, I noticed a family that buried three children all before they reached the age of 10, in the late 1800s. I don’t know the specific circumstances, but disease is a likely guess. So much grief.
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@petealexharris It is, alas, nowhere near 99%.
The distinction may have operational utility in opposing their policies; for example, the "all these babies will die! look at the tombstones in old graveyards!" response to anti-vax policies functions to confirm the objectives and purposes of the anti-vax movement. It's about killing babies; that's what it wants. Telling its members that babies will die is not an effective means of dissuasion.
If they *were* just a death cult that would also be true.
Not saying it's that simple, but if someone said "Look out, that death cult is coming to get us" I don't think "But they only want to kill people like us, not themselves" would be responsive to the situation. Which is why I think *from outside the cult* there's no important terminological distinction.
If they could be reasoned with, you could apply reason to their goals as they perceive them, yes.
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RE: https://mastodon.laurenweinstein.org/@lauren/115963873612884664
Reminder that in the UK in 1900, before mass vaccination for childhood diseases began, 20% of all babies died before their fifth birthday (from diseases we currently vaccinate them against).
RFK jr's appointee wants to kill roughly 20% of all newborn Americans "to improve the breed" or something.
(Not including those paralysed for life by polio.)
There are only two kinds of person who believes in eugenics: those who think it applies to people they don't like, but not to them, and …
Sorry, I'm wrong. There is only one kind of person who believes in eugenics.
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RE: https://mastodon.laurenweinstein.org/@lauren/115963873612884664
Reminder that in the UK in 1900, before mass vaccination for childhood diseases began, 20% of all babies died before their fifth birthday (from diseases we currently vaccinate them against).
RFK jr's appointee wants to kill roughly 20% of all newborn Americans "to improve the breed" or something.
(Not including those paralysed for life by polio.)
@cstross wow, what a moron - we had to monitor our sewage systems and proactively vaccinate children to get rid of the damn thing.
I remember growing up with kids my age wearing thick metal frames around their legs because of the disease.
Don't see them anymore because we eradicated it.
Get rid of the idiots soon guys!
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RE: https://mastodon.laurenweinstein.org/@lauren/115963873612884664
Reminder that in the UK in 1900, before mass vaccination for childhood diseases began, 20% of all babies died before their fifth birthday (from diseases we currently vaccinate them against).
RFK jr's appointee wants to kill roughly 20% of all newborn Americans "to improve the breed" or something.
(Not including those paralysed for life by polio.)
@cstross It's a real shame someone vaccinated RFK Jr.
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RE: https://mastodon.laurenweinstein.org/@lauren/115963873612884664
Reminder that in the UK in 1900, before mass vaccination for childhood diseases began, 20% of all babies died before their fifth birthday (from diseases we currently vaccinate them against).
RFK jr's appointee wants to kill roughly 20% of all newborn Americans "to improve the breed" or something.
(Not including those paralysed for life by polio.)
@cstross 20% is generous, I would say maybe closer to 80% considering size of the continents difference.
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@cstross wow, what a moron - we had to monitor our sewage systems and proactively vaccinate children to get rid of the damn thing.
I remember growing up with kids my age wearing thick metal frames around their legs because of the disease.
Don't see them anymore because we eradicated it.
Get rid of the idiots soon guys!
Wish we could but 40% of our population are idiots
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@cstross I wonder when the rest of the world will start requiring USians to have proof of vaccination before entering the country
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@cstross callous and selfish people like the MAHA folks need callus and selfish responses. Its all they understand. One such response in the 'my tax dollars range' : It is my tax dollars they are wasting. Why should my tax dollars pay to treat you when you could have been vaccinated? My tax dollars paid for that vaccine, why are you wasting it. Its not the government, it's my tax dollars. Etc blah blah.
My guess is millions of people will decide not to bother paying their federal taxes this year.
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@jpages Massive public education campaigns and immediate isolation of outbreak patients put the brakes on. As did better living conditions (it's hard to isolate in a slum with eight people sleeping to a room; also hard to isolate when there are ten kids in a family).
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@cstross https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Alexander_(polio_survivor)
Considering he died not that long ago means there are polio survivors probably still floating around, so it isn’t that long ago polio was killing people. I also remember my mom talking about her mom taking them and standing in line for the vaccine when it came out because she knew how deadly it was.
We all stood in line at school for the smallpox vaccine too
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