Reminder that in the UK in 1900, before mass vaccination for childhood diseases began, 20% of all babies died before their fifth birthday (from diseases we currently vaccinate them against).
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@cstross People who are anti-vaccination for whatever fruitloops reason need to spend some quality time in old churchyards looking at monuments to dead children put up by bereft parents.
@Infoseepage @cstross Wandering through a local cemetery, I noticed a family that buried three children all before they reached the age of 10, in the late 1800s. I don’t know the specific circumstances, but disease is a likely guess. So much grief.
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@petealexharris It is, alas, nowhere near 99%.
The distinction may have operational utility in opposing their policies; for example, the "all these babies will die! look at the tombstones in old graveyards!" response to anti-vax policies functions to confirm the objectives and purposes of the anti-vax movement. It's about killing babies; that's what it wants. Telling its members that babies will die is not an effective means of dissuasion.
If they *were* just a death cult that would also be true.
Not saying it's that simple, but if someone said "Look out, that death cult is coming to get us" I don't think "But they only want to kill people like us, not themselves" would be responsive to the situation. Which is why I think *from outside the cult* there's no important terminological distinction.
If they could be reasoned with, you could apply reason to their goals as they perceive them, yes.
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RE: https://mastodon.laurenweinstein.org/@lauren/115963873612884664
Reminder that in the UK in 1900, before mass vaccination for childhood diseases began, 20% of all babies died before their fifth birthday (from diseases we currently vaccinate them against).
RFK jr's appointee wants to kill roughly 20% of all newborn Americans "to improve the breed" or something.
(Not including those paralysed for life by polio.)
There are only two kinds of person who believes in eugenics: those who think it applies to people they don't like, but not to them, and …
Sorry, I'm wrong. There is only one kind of person who believes in eugenics.
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RE: https://mastodon.laurenweinstein.org/@lauren/115963873612884664
Reminder that in the UK in 1900, before mass vaccination for childhood diseases began, 20% of all babies died before their fifth birthday (from diseases we currently vaccinate them against).
RFK jr's appointee wants to kill roughly 20% of all newborn Americans "to improve the breed" or something.
(Not including those paralysed for life by polio.)
@cstross wow, what a moron - we had to monitor our sewage systems and proactively vaccinate children to get rid of the damn thing.
I remember growing up with kids my age wearing thick metal frames around their legs because of the disease.
Don't see them anymore because we eradicated it.
Get rid of the idiots soon guys!
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RE: https://mastodon.laurenweinstein.org/@lauren/115963873612884664
Reminder that in the UK in 1900, before mass vaccination for childhood diseases began, 20% of all babies died before their fifth birthday (from diseases we currently vaccinate them against).
RFK jr's appointee wants to kill roughly 20% of all newborn Americans "to improve the breed" or something.
(Not including those paralysed for life by polio.)
@cstross It's a real shame someone vaccinated RFK Jr.
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RE: https://mastodon.laurenweinstein.org/@lauren/115963873612884664
Reminder that in the UK in 1900, before mass vaccination for childhood diseases began, 20% of all babies died before their fifth birthday (from diseases we currently vaccinate them against).
RFK jr's appointee wants to kill roughly 20% of all newborn Americans "to improve the breed" or something.
(Not including those paralysed for life by polio.)
@cstross 20% is generous, I would say maybe closer to 80% considering size of the continents difference.
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@cstross wow, what a moron - we had to monitor our sewage systems and proactively vaccinate children to get rid of the damn thing.
I remember growing up with kids my age wearing thick metal frames around their legs because of the disease.
Don't see them anymore because we eradicated it.
Get rid of the idiots soon guys!
Wish we could but 40% of our population are idiots
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@cstross I wonder when the rest of the world will start requiring USians to have proof of vaccination before entering the country
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@cstross callous and selfish people like the MAHA folks need callus and selfish responses. Its all they understand. One such response in the 'my tax dollars range' : It is my tax dollars they are wasting. Why should my tax dollars pay to treat you when you could have been vaccinated? My tax dollars paid for that vaccine, why are you wasting it. Its not the government, it's my tax dollars. Etc blah blah.
My guess is millions of people will decide not to bother paying their federal taxes this year.
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@jpages Massive public education campaigns and immediate isolation of outbreak patients put the brakes on. As did better living conditions (it's hard to isolate in a slum with eight people sleeping to a room; also hard to isolate when there are ten kids in a family).
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@cstross https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Alexander_(polio_survivor)
Considering he died not that long ago means there are polio survivors probably still floating around, so it isn’t that long ago polio was killing people. I also remember my mom talking about her mom taking them and standing in line for the vaccine when it came out because she knew how deadly it was.
We all stood in line at school for the smallpox vaccine too
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@cstross No, put them where they want to be. Greenland.
We had a visitation from Greenland this week, major ice storm in Mississippi and Tennessee. Lots of fun with downed power lines and broken trees.
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RE: https://mastodon.laurenweinstein.org/@lauren/115963873612884664
Reminder that in the UK in 1900, before mass vaccination for childhood diseases began, 20% of all babies died before their fifth birthday (from diseases we currently vaccinate them against).
RFK jr's appointee wants to kill roughly 20% of all newborn Americans "to improve the breed" or something.
(Not including those paralysed for life by polio.)
@cstross Unfortunately, there is nothing that will convince vaccine skeptics.
I once watched the BBC programme "Unvaccinated" by Hannah Fry, who meets seven unvaccinated people in an experiment.
She showed them the evidence, they slowly started to believe the evidence, or said that they did, but they remained skeptics at the end of the programme.
BBC Two - Unvaccinated
Hannah Fry meets seven unvaccinated people to find out why so many haven't had a vaccine.
BBC (www.bbc.co.uk)
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@cstross No, put them where they want to be. Greenland.
@RafeCulpin @cstross I don't think Greenland wants them anymore than we do.
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@Infoseepage @suzannealdrich @cstross I binged through the @empirepoduk podcast, haven't finished it, but listened to 150+ episodes. It's good.
There was a fascinating one where a British woman brought the concept and technology of #smallpox #inoculation home with her from #Turkey...
Here it is:
'She was a pioneering scientist, proto-feminist, and letter writer extraordinaire. Lady Mary Wortley Montagu escaped a marriage to Clotworthy Skeffington to become one of history's most incredible women. Listen this week as William and Anita are joined by Katie Hickman to tell the tale of her life.'
'Clotworthy Skeffington,' I think that might be my next fake name.
@morgan @Infoseepage @suzannealdrich @cstross Empire: World History
"Clotworthy Skeffington" is just...wow
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If they *were* just a death cult that would also be true.
Not saying it's that simple, but if someone said "Look out, that death cult is coming to get us" I don't think "But they only want to kill people like us, not themselves" would be responsive to the situation. Which is why I think *from outside the cult* there's no important terminological distinction.
If they could be reasoned with, you could apply reason to their goals as they perceive them, yes.
@petealexharris Taking it personally is a barrier to understanding, and understanding is necessary to (reliable) victory.
In a just or kind world, one should not be required to deal with such people, and yet the world we have is one subject to selection.
