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  3. Study finds 72% of Developers View Steam as Monopoly [from the overall pool, 75% of respondents were senior managers]

Study finds 72% of Developers View Steam as Monopoly [from the overall pool, 75% of respondents were senior managers]

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  • A aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com

    I’ve been gaming on Linux for a year now and I have (and run) way more games from GOG than Steam.

    Historically I avoided Steam because of the whole “you don’t own the games, you just license them at full price” nature of the “phone home” validation they have for most games, so I had a much larger collection in GOG than Steam to begin with since I would only get from Steam the really interesting games which I wouldn’t find in GOG (plenty of games I simply did not buy because they were Steam only).

    That said, running GOG games in Linux is as least as simple as Steam games, thanks to me using Lutris which does all the heavy lifting of properly configuring Wine and VKDX to run my games and even integrates with GOG to directly download the installers: in practice I have about the same chance of success with click-and-play installing and running a game in Linux from the Steam Store via the Steam App as I do from GOG via Lutris.

    Then on top of that, because I’m a techie, I actually prefer Lutris + Wine because it’s so much more open for configuration than Steam and to figure out yourself how to run games for which there are no pre-made configuration scripts, such as pirated ones - for example, for one of my Steam games I couldn’t at all find a way to run the official version of the game in Linux via the Steam App, but I could get the pirated version of that game to run just fine via Lutris.

    I even have a default setting in Lutris which will run my games inside a Firejail sandbox with networking disabled plus a bunch of other security settings, something I can’t do in Steam (were I can only do it for the entire Steam App, which won’t function with disabled networking).

    pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zoneP This user is from outside of this forum
    pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zoneP This user is from outside of this forum
    pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    wrote on last edited by
    #41

    Many of my favorite games don’t have drm, and you can just copy the install folder and boom, you own a copy

    A 1 Reply Last reply
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    • B bcsven@lemmy.ca

      Steam isnt a single seller though. There is GOG, there is Microsoft store, and other wasys to purchase games.

      D This user is from outside of this forum
      D This user is from outside of this forum
      devjavu@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      wrote on last edited by devjavu@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      #42

      Right, and everybody buys their games over microsoft store. I don’t even know what the hell GOG is supposed to be. A monopoly is not characterized by no other players, it’s chracterized by a lack of seriously competing players. There is a serious difference. Chrome isn’t the only player. It’s still a monopoly with 70% of market share. It can move the market at will with little meaningful resistance.
      If I go and sell lemonade, that doesn’t do anything to CocaCola.

      B 1 Reply Last reply
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      • R ryathal@sh.itjust.works

        Microsoft tried to flip the switch years ago to kill anything outside the Microsoft store. That’s when steam released the original steam machines. Combined with general negative response to the messaging Microsoft has backed off, but they absolutely want to do it still.

        M This user is from outside of this forum
        M This user is from outside of this forum
        masterspace@lemmy.ca
        wrote on last edited by
        #43

        They never tried to kill anything outside the Microsoft store. That’s just what Tim Sweeney and developers got fearful of and made a big fuss about (not saying it’s not worth making a fuss about, but they never announced they would do it). Microsoft did introduce more limited versions of windows that had sideloading disabled by default, but these were low cost versions of windows generally aimed at children and grandparents / non tech people, not at their gamer user base.

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        • tattorack@lemmy.worldT tattorack@lemmy.world

          It’s a free market, right? Customers choosing what they prefer and all that? And then eventually the one that provides the best price-for-service ratio comes out on top? Something like that, right?

          If you want to stop Steam from being so ubiquitous with PC gaming, then create some proper competition. The only one that comes close in my eyes is GOG.

          M This user is from outside of this forum
          M This user is from outside of this forum
          masterspace@lemmy.ca
          wrote on last edited by masterspace@lemmy.ca
          #44

          It’s a free market, right? Customers choosing what they prefer and all that? And then eventually the one that provides the best price-for-service ratio comes out on top? Something like that, right?

          Yeah, that’s lead to monopolies before numerous times. That does not change the fact that a monopoly is still a bad thing as as soon as there’s no competitors, the monopoly can jack up it’s prices or keep them artificially high.

          Assuming there’s up front costs you have to pay to be able to compete with that monopoly (infrastructure, marketing, etc), then you’re looking at losing a lot of money trying to break into a market where everyone defaults to your competitor. And in that time, your monopolistic competitor can afford to lose even more money to bleed you out of the market and then go back to high prices.

          And that’s just the financial barrier, that doesn’t count networks effects and platform lock in that can prevent customers from leaving.

          Monopolies are always a bad thing, and inherently need to be heavily regulated as they structurally break capitalism. Quite frankly any industry that creates walled-garden or relies on network effects needs to be heavily regulated as well, and steam checks all three of those boxes. There’s a reason that they are THE most profitable tech company per employee, and that’s not because they’re charging fair prices.

          tattorack@lemmy.worldT 1 Reply Last reply
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          • G ganbat@lemmy.dbzer0.com

            from the overall pool, 75% of respondents were senior managers

            So… not developers, but businessmen.

            M This user is from outside of this forum
            M This user is from outside of this forum
            masterspace@lemmy.ca
            wrote on last edited by
            #45

            Yeah, who do you think is best equipped to examine the sales and financials?

            A 1 Reply Last reply
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            • D devjavu@lemmy.dbzer0.com

              Right, and everybody buys their games over microsoft store. I don’t even know what the hell GOG is supposed to be. A monopoly is not characterized by no other players, it’s chracterized by a lack of seriously competing players. There is a serious difference. Chrome isn’t the only player. It’s still a monopoly with 70% of market share. It can move the market at will with little meaningful resistance.
              If I go and sell lemonade, that doesn’t do anything to CocaCola.

              B This user is from outside of this forum
              B This user is from outside of this forum
              bcsven@lemmy.ca
              wrote on last edited by
              #46

              Chrome/google is a monopoly because they actually pay to keep Firefox and apple Browsers running. Firefoxes major funder is google. This is so Google can claim they aren’t a monopoly.

              Gog is the games store most people use if they don’t want steam. https://www.gog.com/en/games

              D 1 Reply Last reply
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              • M masterspace@lemmy.ca

                Yeah, who do you think is best equipped to examine the sales and financials?

                A This user is from outside of this forum
                A This user is from outside of this forum
                athatet@lemmy.zip
                wrote on last edited by
                #47

                From what I’ve seen and heard, probably not businessmen.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zoneP pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                  Many of my favorite games don’t have drm, and you can just copy the install folder and boom, you own a copy

                  A This user is from outside of this forum
                  A This user is from outside of this forum
                  aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  wrote on last edited by aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  #48

                  Yeah, but the store doesn’t actually tell you which is which when you’re looking to buy a new game, now does it?!

                  Further, will that copy of an install folder work if you copy it into a new machine? Maybe, but probably not (it depends on things like how the game handles missing registry keys and/or the graphics card changing whilst there’s already a shader cache for the previous graphics cards).

                  When you’re making a purchasing decision, if that factor is very important to you, Steam’s possibility that maybe it can be done in an unofficial non-supported way, but you don’t get told upfront if it does work, and you’re not sure if it will work if you change machines, doesn’t count as a real “I get to keep the game no matter what” feature - it’s a hack, that sometimes works, usually doesn’t.

                  In GOG that feature is standard.

                  pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zoneP 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                    This post did not contain any content.
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                    kepix@lemmy.world
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #49

                    news are suppose to have new information

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • M masterspace@lemmy.ca

                      It’s a free market, right? Customers choosing what they prefer and all that? And then eventually the one that provides the best price-for-service ratio comes out on top? Something like that, right?

                      Yeah, that’s lead to monopolies before numerous times. That does not change the fact that a monopoly is still a bad thing as as soon as there’s no competitors, the monopoly can jack up it’s prices or keep them artificially high.

                      Assuming there’s up front costs you have to pay to be able to compete with that monopoly (infrastructure, marketing, etc), then you’re looking at losing a lot of money trying to break into a market where everyone defaults to your competitor. And in that time, your monopolistic competitor can afford to lose even more money to bleed you out of the market and then go back to high prices.

                      And that’s just the financial barrier, that doesn’t count networks effects and platform lock in that can prevent customers from leaving.

                      Monopolies are always a bad thing, and inherently need to be heavily regulated as they structurally break capitalism. Quite frankly any industry that creates walled-garden or relies on network effects needs to be heavily regulated as well, and steam checks all three of those boxes. There’s a reason that they are THE most profitable tech company per employee, and that’s not because they’re charging fair prices.

                      tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                      tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                      tattorack@lemmy.world
                      wrote on last edited by tattorack@lemmy.world
                      #50

                      But Steam isn’t a walled garden, or a monopoly.

                      Valve has done nothing that monopolistic corporations have done (i.e. Disney or Nintendo). They have kept themselves relatively small, private, and focused on providing one service really well.

                      Every other competition has only ever tried approaching what Valve does with Steam with shortcuts and quick money grabs.

                      It’s all fine and dandy to cry and complain about monopolies, but nobody even really tried. Epic’s store was, and still is, a laughing stock. That is what Valve is up against.

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                      • A aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                        Yeah, but the store doesn’t actually tell you which is which when you’re looking to buy a new game, now does it?!

                        Further, will that copy of an install folder work if you copy it into a new machine? Maybe, but probably not (it depends on things like how the game handles missing registry keys and/or the graphics card changing whilst there’s already a shader cache for the previous graphics cards).

                        When you’re making a purchasing decision, if that factor is very important to you, Steam’s possibility that maybe it can be done in an unofficial non-supported way, but you don’t get told upfront if it does work, and you’re not sure if it will work if you change machines, doesn’t count as a real “I get to keep the game no matter what” feature - it’s a hack, that sometimes works, usually doesn’t.

                        In GOG that feature is standard.

                        pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zoneP This user is from outside of this forum
                        pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zoneP This user is from outside of this forum
                        pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #51

                        This wasn’t a “hey this is ok because you can sometimes do it in a jank way” comment, more of a “hey in case you didn’t know you can go make copies to preserve what you like” comment

                        A 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zoneP pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                          This wasn’t a “hey this is ok because you can sometimes do it in a jank way” comment, more of a “hey in case you didn’t know you can go make copies to preserve what you like” comment

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                          A This user is from outside of this forum
                          aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #52

                          Ah, cheers!

                          It’s always good to inform people.

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                            This post did not contain any content.
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                            Spice Hoarder
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #53

                            How’d they get their polling pool? Sitting outside the Valve corporate office?

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • G ganbat@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                              from the overall pool, 75% of respondents were senior managers

                              So… not developers, but businessmen.

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                              S This user is from outside of this forum
                              Spice Hoarder
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #54

                              I read this as senior managers at valve…

                              G 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • M masterspace@lemmy.ca

                                They never tried to kill anything outside the Microsoft store. That’s just what Tim Sweeney and developers got fearful of and made a big fuss about (not saying it’s not worth making a fuss about, but they never announced they would do it). Microsoft did introduce more limited versions of windows that had sideloading disabled by default, but these were low cost versions of windows generally aimed at children and grandparents / non tech people, not at their gamer user base.

                                R This user is from outside of this forum
                                R This user is from outside of this forum
                                ryathal@sh.itjust.works
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #55

                                They absolutely were heading that direction with both windows and Xbox until the massive backlash from the public forced them to tone down their plans. It’s still the same company that tried to kill used games on consoles, and they basically have with the creation of game pass. Valve built an escape hatch to Linux for gaming, which has forced them to be a bit nicer on the PC front, but that’s not a sign of Microsoft being good.

                                M 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • B bcsven@lemmy.ca

                                  Chrome/google is a monopoly because they actually pay to keep Firefox and apple Browsers running. Firefoxes major funder is google. This is so Google can claim they aren’t a monopoly.

                                  Gog is the games store most people use if they don’t want steam. https://www.gog.com/en/games

                                  D This user is from outside of this forum
                                  D This user is from outside of this forum
                                  devjavu@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #56

                                  There is also Safari, Gnome Web, Falkon (don’t know the spelling), ladybird, then you got the web browsers that are not fully web compliant… the point is there is a lot. And even if Mozilla wasn’t paid large sums of miney by Google, Firefox as code wouldn’t vanish all of a sudden. It would likely be picked up by the FOSS community (again).

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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                                    softestsapphic@lemmy.world
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #57

                                    It’s a monopoly that benefits the consumer.

                                    It could easily not be a monopoly if any other company was dedicated to making as good of a customer experience.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • R ryathal@sh.itjust.works

                                      They absolutely were heading that direction with both windows and Xbox until the massive backlash from the public forced them to tone down their plans. It’s still the same company that tried to kill used games on consoles, and they basically have with the creation of game pass. Valve built an escape hatch to Linux for gaming, which has forced them to be a bit nicer on the PC front, but that’s not a sign of Microsoft being good.

                                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                                      masterspace@lemmy.ca
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #58

                                      Lol, they didn’t try to kill used games on console, when they announced the Xbox One they also announced that you would be able to digitally sell and transfer your games licenses and share you digital library with friends.

                                      Gamers didn’t hear that though, and then those plans got scrapped when they had to rework everything before launch.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • A aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                                        I’ve been gaming on Linux for a year now and I have (and run) way more games from GOG than Steam.

                                        Historically I avoided Steam because of the whole “you don’t own the games, you just license them at full price” nature of the “phone home” validation they have for most games, so I had a much larger collection in GOG than Steam to begin with since I would only get from Steam the really interesting games which I wouldn’t find in GOG (plenty of games I simply did not buy because they were Steam only).

                                        That said, running GOG games in Linux is as least as simple as Steam games, thanks to me using Lutris which does all the heavy lifting of properly configuring Wine and VKDX to run my games and even integrates with GOG to directly download the installers: in practice I have about the same chance of success with click-and-play installing and running a game in Linux from the Steam Store via the Steam App as I do from GOG via Lutris.

                                        Then on top of that, because I’m a techie, I actually prefer Lutris + Wine because it’s so much more open for configuration than Steam and to figure out yourself how to run games for which there are no pre-made configuration scripts, such as pirated ones - for example, for one of my Steam games I couldn’t at all find a way to run the official version of the game in Linux via the Steam App, but I could get the pirated version of that game to run just fine via Lutris.

                                        I even have a default setting in Lutris which will run my games inside a Firejail sandbox with networking disabled plus a bunch of other security settings, something I can’t do in Steam (were I can only do it for the entire Steam App, which won’t function with disabled networking).

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                                        ryathal@sh.itjust.works
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #59

                                        You don’t own gog games either. Not using drm doesn’t grant ownership.

                                        A 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • S Spice Hoarder

                                          I read this as senior managers at valve…

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                                          ganbat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #60

                                          First line of the article seems fairly contradictory to that.

                                          S 1 Reply Last reply
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