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Wandering Adventure Party

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  • Loke_L Loke_

    FOUND IT

    E This user is from outside of this forum
    E This user is from outside of this forum
    eruwero
    wrote last edited by
    #21

    @lokeloski and CEOs think it can replace everything. I wonder why...

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    • Ratsnake GamesR Ratsnake Games

      @lokeloski the subtext here is also that at least some artists do not consider other artistic fields "real" art

      PhilWillP This user is from outside of this forum
      PhilWillP This user is from outside of this forum
      PhilWill
      wrote last edited by
      #22

      @ratsnakegames @lokeloski
      Absolutely, what we do not know intimately we make assumptions about...
      They 'just' do their thing, how could it possibly be as important, complex and difficult as the work that I am doing?

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      • Loke_L Loke_

        FOUND IT

        Den of EarthD This user is from outside of this forum
        Den of EarthD This user is from outside of this forum
        Den of Earth
        wrote last edited by
        #23

        @lokeloski
        I recently went to an opera where the composer was not only present but also performing as one of the soloists, among five other vocalists, along with a men's choir, accompanied by a full orchestra.

        The backdrop to this rich contribution to human musical art was AI visuals projected onto a screen.

        Shaula EvansS 1 Reply Last reply
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        • Loke_L Loke_

          FOUND IT

          wobweger :verified:W This user is from outside of this forum
          wobweger :verified:W This user is from outside of this forum
          wobweger :verified:
          wrote last edited by
          #24

          @lokeloski
          alt-text screenshot of post by magicmooshka from Jan 7:
          recently my friend's comics professor told her that it's acceptable to use gen AI for script-writing but not for art, since a machine can't generate meaningful artistic work. meanwhile, my sisters screenwriting professor said that they can use gen AI for concept art and visualization, but that it won't be able to generate script that's any good. and at my job, 1/2

          wobweger :verified:W 1 Reply Last reply
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          • wobweger :verified:W wobweger :verified:

            @lokeloski
            alt-text screenshot of post by magicmooshka from Jan 7:
            recently my friend's comics professor told her that it's acceptable to use gen AI for script-writing but not for art, since a machine can't generate meaningful artistic work. meanwhile, my sisters screenwriting professor said that they can use gen AI for concept art and visualization, but that it won't be able to generate script that's any good. and at my job, 1/2

            wobweger :verified:W This user is from outside of this forum
            wobweger :verified:W This user is from outside of this forum
            wobweger :verified:
            wrote last edited by
            #25

            it seems like each department says that AI can be useful in every field except the one that they know best.

            it's only ever the jobs we're unfamiliar with that we assume can be replaced with automation.
            The more attuned we are with certain processes, crafts and occupations, the more we realize that gen AI will never be able to provide a suitable replacement. The case for its existence relies on our ignorance of the work and skill required to be everything we don't. 2/2

            wobweger :verified:W 1 Reply Last reply
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            • wobweger :verified:W wobweger :verified:

              it seems like each department says that AI can be useful in every field except the one that they know best.

              it's only ever the jobs we're unfamiliar with that we assume can be replaced with automation.
              The more attuned we are with certain processes, crafts and occupations, the more we realize that gen AI will never be able to provide a suitable replacement. The case for its existence relies on our ignorance of the work and skill required to be everything we don't. 2/2

              wobweger :verified:W This user is from outside of this forum
              wobweger :verified:W This user is from outside of this forum
              wobweger :verified:
              wrote last edited by
              #26

              strange conclusions by those professors,
              in my mind it works differently,
              when I say #salami output in a field where I'm expert and judge it to be inferior and conclude so-marketed gen AI will not be a competition, I would conclude this is valid for a l l other fields as well, and I as a dilettante in all other fields can be tricked to accept generated output as valid.

              wobweger :verified:W 1 Reply Last reply
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              • wobweger :verified:W wobweger :verified:

                strange conclusions by those professors,
                in my mind it works differently,
                when I say #salami output in a field where I'm expert and judge it to be inferior and conclude so-marketed gen AI will not be a competition, I would conclude this is valid for a l l other fields as well, and I as a dilettante in all other fields can be tricked to accept generated output as valid.

                wobweger :verified:W This user is from outside of this forum
                wobweger :verified:W This user is from outside of this forum
                wobweger :verified:
                wrote last edited by
                #27

                the reason why mentioned professors and departments are willing to accept #salami output in other fields than theirs, may be caused by several year long propaganda on almost any channel, that claim we are living in a AI era, and that this is t h e new technology to be used, we see huge investments and think no one would just burn money on such a flawed dysfunctional slop generating "invention" so it must work

                wobweger :verified:W 1 Reply Last reply
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                • wobweger :verified:W wobweger :verified:

                  the reason why mentioned professors and departments are willing to accept #salami output in other fields than theirs, may be caused by several year long propaganda on almost any channel, that claim we are living in a AI era, and that this is t h e new technology to be used, we see huge investments and think no one would just burn money on such a flawed dysfunctional slop generating "invention" so it must work

                  wobweger :verified:W This user is from outside of this forum
                  wobweger :verified:W This user is from outside of this forum
                  wobweger :verified:
                  wrote last edited by
                  #28

                  stock prices are driven by this wild marketing stunt

                  7 titles dominate the S&P500 index, all 7 are in full hype cycle

                  this bubble has to go
                  this bubble will go
                  soon

                  #salami aka #AI #AGI #genAI

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                  • Loke_L Loke_

                    FOUND IT

                    Dave RahardjaD This user is from outside of this forum
                    Dave RahardjaD This user is from outside of this forum
                    Dave Rahardja
                    wrote last edited by
                    #29

                    @lokeloski Gell-Mann Amnesia.

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                    • Adrian Riskin 🇵🇸🍉A Adrian Riskin 🇵🇸🍉

                      @lokeloski

                      It's the Gell-Mann amnesia effect all over again.

                      -----------
                      The Gell-Mann amnesia effect is a claimed cognitive bias describing the tendency of individuals to critically assess media reports in a domain they are knowledgeable about, yet continue to trust reporting in other areas despite recognizing similar potential inaccuracies.

                      Link Preview Image
                      Michael Crichton - Wikipedia

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                      Joep Bos-CoenraadJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      Joep Bos-CoenraadJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      Joep Bos-Coenraad
                      wrote last edited by
                      #30

                      @AdrianRiskin @lokeloski or more generally the egocentric bias. Veritasium has a nice video on this: https://youtu.be/3LopI4YeC4I?si=ZV6CuklywzLekwHd

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                      • Adrian Riskin 🇵🇸🍉A Adrian Riskin 🇵🇸🍉

                        @lokeloski

                        It's the Gell-Mann amnesia effect all over again.

                        -----------
                        The Gell-Mann amnesia effect is a claimed cognitive bias describing the tendency of individuals to critically assess media reports in a domain they are knowledgeable about, yet continue to trust reporting in other areas despite recognizing similar potential inaccuracies.

                        Link Preview Image
                        Michael Crichton - Wikipedia

                        favicon

                        (en.wikipedia.org)

                        Alexander The 1stA This user is from outside of this forum
                        Alexander The 1stA This user is from outside of this forum
                        Alexander The 1st
                        wrote last edited by
                        #31

                        @AdrianRiskin @lokeloski It's one of the reasons that, when pointing out that I do not like Generative LLMs for the work they output, I do emphasize that it's not just *my* programming expertise that I feel this for.

                        Like, I feel the same way for books; if you wrote it with an LLM, and we can see because a prompt made it into the printed version, that tells me that you did not read what you claimed to have "Wrote" with an LLM - why should I read it then, when I know it can do the same thing it can do for math, or coding, or images?

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                        • Loke_L Loke_

                          FOUND IT

                          geeeeroG This user is from outside of this forum
                          geeeeroG This user is from outside of this forum
                          geeeero
                          wrote last edited by
                          #32

                          @lokeloski Very well put. To me, this is similar to the Gell-Mann amnesia effect, where for subjects we have deep knowlege about, we see all the flaws in media reports, but tend to assume that for all other subjects, the media reports are basically fine. @davidgerard

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                          • Loke_L Loke_

                            FOUND IT

                            Bernd Paysan R.I.P Natenom 🕯️F This user is from outside of this forum
                            Bernd Paysan R.I.P Natenom 🕯️F This user is from outside of this forum
                            Bernd Paysan R.I.P Natenom 🕯️
                            wrote last edited by
                            #33

                            @lokeloski Gen AI can replace incompetent people. Well, it will be incompetent, too, but often somewhat better.

                            Same with self-driving cars. Self-driving cars replacing incompetent drivers and driving somewhat better than them is good enough to improve overall traffic safety.

                            We like to compare AI with the best people out there — we made the same mistake with chess players and go players and only accepted AI superiority when AI was able to beat the world champion; but it was playing better than average a decade before.

                            Current Gen AI is certainly worse than the best. But we don't have that many best people out there. We have a lot of stupid, uneducated people. And we have them in positions of power where they never should have been promoted to, and they do spectacularly wrong things there.

                            We are constantly overestimating human intelligence, too. Not just Gen AI intelligence.

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                            • Loke_L Loke_

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                              bovaz@misskey.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                              bovaz@misskey.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                              bovaz@misskey.social
                              wrote last edited by
                              #34
                              @lokeloski@mastodon.social I just shared this at work.
                              With some of the people pushing for AI integration everywhere.
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                              • Loke_L Loke_

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                                bartholin (neues Jahr arc)B This user is from outside of this forum
                                bartholin (neues Jahr arc)B This user is from outside of this forum
                                bartholin (neues Jahr arc)
                                wrote last edited by
                                #35
                                @lokeloski or programmers asking LLMs to generate code for them, because they cannot code
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                                • Loke_L Loke_

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                                  Arne BöttgerA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Arne BöttgerA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Arne Böttger
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #36

                                  @lokeloski I call that Mount Stupid

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                                  • geeeeroG geeeero

                                    @lokeloski Very well put. To me, this is similar to the Gell-Mann amnesia effect, where for subjects we have deep knowlege about, we see all the flaws in media reports, but tend to assume that for all other subjects, the media reports are basically fine. @davidgerard

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                                    David GerardD This user is from outside of this forum
                                    David GerardD This user is from outside of this forum
                                    David Gerard
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #37

                                    @geeeero @lokeloski important to note the Gell-Mann effect is made up trash. It's literally something Crichton said once. So imagine how cognitive psychologists feel about it.

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                                    • Loke_L Loke_

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                                      Andy Wootton
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #38

                                      @lokeloski Fortunately for AI pushers, most people are ignorant about most things. Optimistically, the Inverse 80/20 rule applies.

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                                      • Loke_L Loke_

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                                        SergeX This user is from outside of this forum
                                        SergeX This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Serge
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #39

                                        @lokeloski I’ve seen this attitude even in some highly skilled people.

                                        The idea that what they’re doing is obviously complex and requires deep knowledge and skills, but work that others are doing is obviously trivial. Very surprising.

                                        It’s not uncommon for undergraduates to assume some field is easy, because the introductory course they had on it was, but for accomplished professors to have similar ideas about fields outside of their expertise? Why? Is there a psychologist in the house?

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                                        • Loke_L Loke_

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                                          beemohB This user is from outside of this forum
                                          beemohB This user is from outside of this forum
                                          beemoh
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #40

                                          @lokeloski An extra step to this I saw elsewhere- "People think it can do things except the things they personally are competent to do. Which is why the C Suite thinks it can do everything"

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