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Makes sense to me

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved RPGMemes
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  • This is fine🔥🐶☕🔥T This is fine🔥🐶☕🔥

    The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set.

    I remember the chills I got when I read it for the first time.

    I’ll be mad till my last breath at Peter Jackson for not including this in the movies.

    samus12345@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
    samus12345@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
    samus12345@sh.itjust.works
    wrote last edited by samus12345@sh.itjust.works
    #10

    Have to watch the Rankin Bass version for that!

    S 1 Reply Last reply
    22
    • M morphballganon@mtgzone.com

      The sense is that Gandalf seemed too powerful and the director decided to humble him a bit to add tension.

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      Saapas
      wrote last edited by
      #11

      And it was cool as fuck scene

      1 Reply Last reply
      18
      • T Tar_Alcaran

        The answer is pretty simple:

        Peter Jackson isn’t nearly as good at telling a consistent story as Tolkien was. This scene isn’t in the books.

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        ryathal@sh.itjust.works
        wrote last edited by
        #12

        I wouldn’t say that. I’d say he did a great job adapting text to a visual medium. In the text just having the sword light on fire in preparation works. When you see it played out, everyone is going to ask why he didn’t take a swing before leaving.

        samuraibeandog@lemmy.worldS 1 Reply Last reply
        29
        • samus12345@sh.itjust.worksS samus12345@sh.itjust.works

          Have to watch the Rankin Bass version for that!

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          sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz
          wrote last edited by sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz
          #13

          THÖŪ FÖÖL NNNYA-AH-AH-AHHH

          (I can hear this image)

          1 Reply Last reply
          5
          • R ryathal@sh.itjust.works

            I wouldn’t say that. I’d say he did a great job adapting text to a visual medium. In the text just having the sword light on fire in preparation works. When you see it played out, everyone is going to ask why he didn’t take a swing before leaving.

            samuraibeandog@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
            samuraibeandog@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
            samuraibeandog@lemmy.world
            wrote last edited by
            #14

            This is exactly what the previous comment is saying. Jackson changed stuff for the movies to cater to mainstream movie audience expectations, at the cost of the worldbuilding and lore.

            R 1 Reply Last reply
            17
            • samuraibeandog@lemmy.worldS samuraibeandog@lemmy.world

              This is exactly what the previous comment is saying. Jackson changed stuff for the movies to cater to mainstream movie audience expectations, at the cost of the worldbuilding and lore.

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              ryathal@sh.itjust.works
              wrote last edited by
              #15

              Maybe having a guy that’s totally invulnerable to the most powerful bad guys is actually not great world building in the first place.

              samuraibeandog@lemmy.worldS B A 3 Replies Last reply
              7
              • R ryathal@sh.itjust.works

                Maybe having a guy that’s totally invulnerable to the most powerful bad guys is actually not great world building in the first place.

                samuraibeandog@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                samuraibeandog@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                samuraibeandog@lemmy.world
                wrote last edited by samuraibeandog@lemmy.world
                #16

                He’s not at all invulnerable, in the book they were about to throw down and the Witch King was pretty confident about his chances. Also Gandalf literally gets killed by the Balrog. And beaten and imprisoned by Saruman.

                R S 2 Replies Last reply
                8
                • R ryathal@sh.itjust.works

                  Maybe having a guy that’s totally invulnerable to the most powerful bad guys is actually not great world building in the first place.

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                  butwhyishischinabook@lemmy.world
                  wrote last edited by
                  #17

                  HERESY!!! /s

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  2
                  • samuraibeandog@lemmy.worldS samuraibeandog@lemmy.world

                    He’s not at all invulnerable, in the book they were about to throw down and the Witch King was pretty confident about his chances. Also Gandalf literally gets killed by the Balrog. And beaten and imprisoned by Saruman.

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                    ryathal@sh.itjust.works
                    wrote last edited by
                    #18

                    Yes pre-super Saiyan Gandalf is weaker.

                    samuraibeandog@lemmy.worldS 1 Reply Last reply
                    2
                    • arctanthropeA arctanthrope

                      well mostly it’s explained by the fact that it didn’t happen.

                      "In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face.

                      All save one. There waiting, silent and still in the space before the Gate, sat Gandalf upon Shadowfax: Shadowfax who alone among the free horses of the earth endured the terror, unmoving, steadfast as a graven image in Rath Dínen.

                      ‘You cannot enter here,’ said Gandalf, and the huge shadow halted. ‘Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!’

                      The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. From a mouth unseen there came a deadly laughter.

                      ‘Old fool!’ he said. ‘Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!’ And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.

                      Gandalf did not move."

                      and then the Rohirrim arrive and the Rider leaves.

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                      psx_crab@lemmy.zip
                      wrote last edited by
                      #19

                      Dude really just “Go home, boy” the ghost.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      5
                      • R ryathal@sh.itjust.works

                        Yes pre-super Saiyan Gandalf is weaker.

                        samuraibeandog@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                        samuraibeandog@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                        samuraibeandog@lemmy.world
                        wrote last edited by
                        #20

                        The Witch King was still gonna go him.

                        K 1 Reply Last reply
                        1
                        • samuraibeandog@lemmy.worldS samuraibeandog@lemmy.world

                          He’s not at all invulnerable, in the book they were about to throw down and the Witch King was pretty confident about his chances. Also Gandalf literally gets killed by the Balrog. And beaten and imprisoned by Saruman.

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                          squaresinger@lemmy.world
                          wrote last edited by squaresinger@lemmy.world
                          #21

                          Both happened before Gandalf got cleaned up though.

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • samuraibeandog@lemmy.worldS samuraibeandog@lemmy.world

                            He literally is not a man.

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                            dragontypewyvern@midwest.social
                            wrote last edited by
                            #22

                            Meaning both he and the Balrog lose a lot of their power in physical form in the first place but yeah

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                              schwertimstein@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                              wrote last edited by
                              #23

                              Balrog who is also a Maia*

                              Maiar is plural

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                              • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                                dragontypewyvern@midwest.social
                                wrote last edited by dragontypewyvern@midwest.social
                                #24

                                The Witch-King can fight a wizard for the same reason elves can fight and kill the greatest dragons and balrogs themselves. Binding creatures of spirit into physical form both weakens them and makes them vulnerable to other creatures built of both natures. If anything, as a wraith, he has an advantage in Tolkien rules.

                                That the Witch King is the equal of a balrog/Maia is not a stretch… Gandalf bring afraid of him even if he is a threat is the stretch, but I’d also argue that’s not being shown in the scene.

                                T 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • samuraibeandog@lemmy.worldS samuraibeandog@lemmy.world

                                  The Witch King was still gonna go him.

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                                  Klear
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #25

                                  Especially with prep time.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  2
                                  • R ryathal@sh.itjust.works

                                    Maybe having a guy that’s totally invulnerable to the most powerful bad guys is actually not great world building in the first place.

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                                    aqarius@lemmy.world
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #26

                                    That’s the thing though, it’s not invulnerability, it’s, for lack of a better term, will realized as magic.

                                    In Moria,

                                    "…Gandalf stood firm. ‘You cannot pass,’ he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. ‘I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass.’

                                    This is an invocation - You cannot pass, I am a Maia of Eru, wielder of Narya, Morgoth is gone, Balrog, You cannot pass - and he does, indeed, not pass.

                                    At Gondor, the actual fight starts earlier:

                                    For yet another weapon, […] the Lord of the Dark Tower had: dread and despair. The Nazgul came again, […] More unbearable they became, not less, at each new cry. At length even the stout-hearted would fling themselves to the ground as the hidden menace passed over them, […] and they thought no more of war; but only of hiding and of crawling, and of death.

                                    And so,

                                    So it was that Gandalf took command […] Wherever he came men’s hearts would lift again, and the winged shadows pass from memory. […] And yet – when they had gone, the shadows closed on men again

                                    And, finally,

                                    Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!’” The Witch-King responds: “‘Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!’” and lifts his sword to strike, and then: “Gandalf did not move. […] a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war […] And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. […] The darkness was breaking too soon, before the date that his Master had set for it: […] he left the Gate and vanished.”

                                    The night assault was driven by the ringwraith terror. Gandalf doesn’t confront the Witch King physically, he denies his terror, and denies him entry, and when he, unwisely, forces a confrontation, his whole spell folds like a cheap suit.

                                    arctanthropeA 1 Reply Last reply
                                    12
                                    • D dragontypewyvern@midwest.social

                                      The Witch-King can fight a wizard for the same reason elves can fight and kill the greatest dragons and balrogs themselves. Binding creatures of spirit into physical form both weakens them and makes them vulnerable to other creatures built of both natures. If anything, as a wraith, he has an advantage in Tolkien rules.

                                      That the Witch King is the equal of a balrog/Maia is not a stretch… Gandalf bring afraid of him even if he is a threat is the stretch, but I’d also argue that’s not being shown in the scene.

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                                      turdas@suppo.fi
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #27

                                      Dragons weren’t spiritual creatures bound into physical form. They were something Morgoth basically selectively bred.

                                      D 1 Reply Last reply
                                      1
                                      • A aqarius@lemmy.world

                                        That’s the thing though, it’s not invulnerability, it’s, for lack of a better term, will realized as magic.

                                        In Moria,

                                        "…Gandalf stood firm. ‘You cannot pass,’ he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. ‘I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass.’

                                        This is an invocation - You cannot pass, I am a Maia of Eru, wielder of Narya, Morgoth is gone, Balrog, You cannot pass - and he does, indeed, not pass.

                                        At Gondor, the actual fight starts earlier:

                                        For yet another weapon, […] the Lord of the Dark Tower had: dread and despair. The Nazgul came again, […] More unbearable they became, not less, at each new cry. At length even the stout-hearted would fling themselves to the ground as the hidden menace passed over them, […] and they thought no more of war; but only of hiding and of crawling, and of death.

                                        And so,

                                        So it was that Gandalf took command […] Wherever he came men’s hearts would lift again, and the winged shadows pass from memory. […] And yet – when they had gone, the shadows closed on men again

                                        And, finally,

                                        Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!’” The Witch-King responds: “‘Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!’” and lifts his sword to strike, and then: “Gandalf did not move. […] a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war […] And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. […] The darkness was breaking too soon, before the date that his Master had set for it: […] he left the Gate and vanished.”

                                        The night assault was driven by the ringwraith terror. Gandalf doesn’t confront the Witch King physically, he denies his terror, and denies him entry, and when he, unwisely, forces a confrontation, his whole spell folds like a cheap suit.

                                        arctanthropeA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        arctanthropeA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        arctanthrope
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #28

                                        good points but I have a nit to pick. I don’t think Flame of Anor refers to Narya, the Ring of Fire. keeping the 3 rings secret was imperative, so much so that Aragorn chides Frodo for mentioning that Galadriel has one, even though that’s a pretty obvious guess, and they were completely alone in the wilderness when it was said, and assaulting Lorien to get it would be difficult for Sauron’s forces. so for Gandalf to say directly to one of Sauron’s highest captains that one of the 3 is directly in front of him, carried by someone unexpected, as easy to take as defeating a single enemy (powerful as that enemy may be), just doesn’t make sense

                                        Anor is the sun, so I think Gandalf is just saying “we both wield fire, but mine is bright like the sun, and thus superior to yours which is dark”

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        3
                                        • KichaeK Kichae

                                          LotR is running Pathfinder 2e under the hood, by the sounds of it, using Proficiency Without Level.

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                                          thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #29

                                          Could LotR scenes be used as examples to explain various mechanics from Pathfinder 2e?

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          1

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