Something clicked for me yesterday. I read about #RFKJr 's latest claim that #Tylenol causes #autism when used during #pregnancy , and I thought:

"Hey, I have read something very similar in a German #folklore text!"

And here you have it:

"If a mother uses a spell in order to ease her birth, then the Evil Enemy tries to lure these children in particular. Thanks to this magical influence, such children - if female - are born with the drive to trude. But male children are driven to theft (the 'Bilwez Cut!')."

"Truding" in this context means becoming a "night hag"-type spirit while sleeping who torments and squeezes other spirits (the "sleep paralysis" phenomenon) while the "Bilwez Cut" is the ability to magically cut down the ripe grain fields of others and steal the grain without spotting you. You can read the entire text at the link - though beware, it's full of ableist nonsense.

But now I am intrigued - both in JFKJr's modern claims (and presumably his fellow conspiracy fantasists, although I haven't followed them too closely) and this bit of folklore from 19th century southeastern Bavaria, the basic message is:

"Women must suffer through the full pain of childbirth, and if they try to alleviate this pain, their children will come out wrong somehow!"

Both qualify as folklore, not facts - but I wonder how widespread this piece of folklore was and is, today and in past centuries, and in which countries and cultures. Does anyone have further examples?

#ableism #patriarchy #misogyny #bullshit
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/Witches_and_Trudes

@juergen_hubert

Great link between folk tradition & modern magical thinking.

Worth generalising from this a little IMO, and keeping a keen eye out for all recycled ideas in the broad "person tries to avoid pain, demons & bad outcomes result" category.

Because the Bible says women must suffer in childbirth for their sin, it's an easy sell to some traditionalists.

In the UK it took queen Victoria openly using chloroform, to reduce the stigma enough so other women could follow suit.

@jaystephens

I wonder if there are any studies about this. And I would be _glad_ for any further examples of this trope.

@juergen_hubert
I know I've seen some, I'll keep my eyes peeled

@jaystephens @juergen_hubert ”Who spareth the rod, hateth the child”?

Something clicked for me yesterday. I read about #RFKJr 's latest claim that #Tylenol causes #autism when used during #pregnancy , and I thought:

"Hey, I have read something very similar in a German #folklore text!"

And here you have it:

"If a mother uses a spell in order to ease her birth, then the Evil Enemy tries to lure these children in particular. Thanks to this magical influence, such children - if female - are born with the drive to trude. But male children are driven to theft (the 'Bilwez Cut!')."

"Truding" in this context means becoming a "night hag"-type spirit while sleeping who torments and squeezes other spirits (the "sleep paralysis" phenomenon) while the "Bilwez Cut" is the ability to magically cut down the ripe grain fields of others and steal the grain without spotting you. You can read the entire text at the link - though beware, it's full of ableist nonsense.

But now I am intrigued - both in JFKJr's modern claims (and presumably his fellow conspiracy fantasists, although I haven't followed them too closely) and this bit of folklore from 19th century southeastern Bavaria, the basic message is:

"Women must suffer through the full pain of childbirth, and if they try to alleviate this pain, their children will come out wrong somehow!"

Both qualify as folklore, not facts - but I wonder how widespread this piece of folklore was and is, today and in past centuries, and in which countries and cultures. Does anyone have further examples?

#ableism #patriarchy #misogyny #bullshit
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/Witches_and_Trudes

@juergen_hubert

Thank you so much for bringing this to the forefront!

In the US at least, a lot of rightwing Christians say that the part in the Bible about bringing forth children in suffering means, anything that alleviates the suffering is not okay

The suffering is penance for Eve tasting the fruit of the tree of knowledge. Everyone who gives birth has to pay for that long ago sin (and, by implication, for the sin of having sex, and potentially maybe enjoying it)

@NilaJones @juergen_hubert weird how founding a religion on a misogynist creation myth perpetuates that misogyny indefinitely. Weeeeeird.

Something clicked for me yesterday. I read about #RFKJr 's latest claim that #Tylenol causes #autism when used during #pregnancy , and I thought:

"Hey, I have read something very similar in a German #folklore text!"

And here you have it:

"If a mother uses a spell in order to ease her birth, then the Evil Enemy tries to lure these children in particular. Thanks to this magical influence, such children - if female - are born with the drive to trude. But male children are driven to theft (the 'Bilwez Cut!')."

"Truding" in this context means becoming a "night hag"-type spirit while sleeping who torments and squeezes other spirits (the "sleep paralysis" phenomenon) while the "Bilwez Cut" is the ability to magically cut down the ripe grain fields of others and steal the grain without spotting you. You can read the entire text at the link - though beware, it's full of ableist nonsense.

But now I am intrigued - both in JFKJr's modern claims (and presumably his fellow conspiracy fantasists, although I haven't followed them too closely) and this bit of folklore from 19th century southeastern Bavaria, the basic message is:

"Women must suffer through the full pain of childbirth, and if they try to alleviate this pain, their children will come out wrong somehow!"

Both qualify as folklore, not facts - but I wonder how widespread this piece of folklore was and is, today and in past centuries, and in which countries and cultures. Does anyone have further examples?

#ableism #patriarchy #misogyny #bullshit
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/Witches_and_Trudes

@juergen_hubert please add the hashtags #patriarchy , #misogyny and #bullshit

Something clicked for me yesterday. I read about #RFKJr 's latest claim that #Tylenol causes #autism when used during #pregnancy , and I thought:

"Hey, I have read something very similar in a German #folklore text!"

And here you have it:

"If a mother uses a spell in order to ease her birth, then the Evil Enemy tries to lure these children in particular. Thanks to this magical influence, such children - if female - are born with the drive to trude. But male children are driven to theft (the 'Bilwez Cut!')."

"Truding" in this context means becoming a "night hag"-type spirit while sleeping who torments and squeezes other spirits (the "sleep paralysis" phenomenon) while the "Bilwez Cut" is the ability to magically cut down the ripe grain fields of others and steal the grain without spotting you. You can read the entire text at the link - though beware, it's full of ableist nonsense.

But now I am intrigued - both in JFKJr's modern claims (and presumably his fellow conspiracy fantasists, although I haven't followed them too closely) and this bit of folklore from 19th century southeastern Bavaria, the basic message is:

"Women must suffer through the full pain of childbirth, and if they try to alleviate this pain, their children will come out wrong somehow!"

Both qualify as folklore, not facts - but I wonder how widespread this piece of folklore was and is, today and in past centuries, and in which countries and cultures. Does anyone have further examples?

#ableism #patriarchy #misogyny #bullshit
https://wiki.sunkencastles.com/wiki/Witches_and_Trudes

@Linza @juergen_hubert

I don't think it's quite like that. At least, I have never run into the misogynist interpretation in the Jewish community

I think it's more like misogynists will twist anything to fit their framework

@NilaJones @Linza @juergen_hubert Compare current-day Taliban restrictions on women with actual islamic doctrine: the Taliban are WAY more repressive, and their claim that it's a religious mandate is seen as spurious bullshit by all their co-religionists.

@cstross NilaJones @juergen_hubert Are we having 'which came first, the patriarchy or the misogyny'?

@Linza @juergen_hubert Egg or chicken, it's still just a jumped-up velociraptor that wants to gnaw on you (or peck you to death).

@cstross @juergen_hubert If you were lost in the woods with one companion, would you rather it be a man or a chicken?

@cstross @juergen_hubert If you were lost in the woods with one companion, would you rather it be a man or a chicken?

@Linza @cstross @juergen_hubert
Hen or Rooster?
What size?

@Da_Gut @cstross @juergen_hubert to make it interesting, let's say a man-sized chicken