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  3. How long does it take to understand a game? You don't owe it 100 hours.

How long does it take to understand a game? You don't owe it 100 hours.

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  • R ryathal@sh.itjust.works

    There’s a really weird and large contingent of gamers that believe you can’t criticize or have a valid opinion on a game unless you complete the game.

    O This user is from outside of this forum
    O This user is from outside of this forum
    overload@sopuli.xyz
    wrote last edited by overload@sopuli.xyz
    #19

    I don’t know man. I’ve dropped off Red Dead redemption 2 quite a few times now, and have only made it up to maybe chapter 2 each time before I get bored of the slow pace of movement, looting and boring shooting. I don’t think I have a very valid opinion of the game because I haven’t seen the so-called amazing story yet, so I don’t hold a strong opinion about it, and don’t think I’m entitled to over people who have experienced the whole thing.

    A 1 Reply Last reply
    2
    • O overload@sopuli.xyz

      I don’t know man. I’ve dropped off Red Dead redemption 2 quite a few times now, and have only made it up to maybe chapter 2 each time before I get bored of the slow pace of movement, looting and boring shooting. I don’t think I have a very valid opinion of the game because I haven’t seen the so-called amazing story yet, so I don’t hold a strong opinion about it, and don’t think I’m entitled to over people who have experienced the whole thing.

      A This user is from outside of this forum
      A This user is from outside of this forum
      atomicpoet@lemmy.world
      wrote last edited by
      #20

      But you know that you’re bored.

      That doesn’t mean you’re an expert. It does mean that there’s something about that game that keeps you from playing further.

      O 1 Reply Last reply
      2
      • A atomicpoet@lemmy.world

        How long should you play a game before you truly understand it?

        There’s a certain contingent of PC gamers who believe you need to spend hundreds of hours with a title before you’re allowed to form an opinion. Especially in online spaces, it’s common to see someone discredited for “only” playing 10 hours—as if they just sniffed the box and walked away.

        I get it… kind of. If we’re talking about something massive and layered like Skyrim, then sure. One playthrough can take weeks out of your life. But is that the standard?

        Take a glance at GOG, which often lists average completion times. Here’s a small sample:

        • Kingdom Come: Deliverance - 41.5 hours
        • Deus Ex - 22.5 hours
        • Frostpunk - 10.5 hours
        • The Invincible - 6.5 hours
        • Project Warlock - 4 hours

        That’s a huge range. Why?

        Mostly genre. The more RPG-like a game is, the longer it will take to finish. But the more arcade-y a game is, the tighter the runtime.

        But there’s this myth—especially among purists—that a “real” PC game shouldn’t feel arcade-y. That PC games are meant to be vast, deep, and long.

        I’ve been a PC gamer for decades. That idea’s nonsense.

        When I had a physical Commodore 64, I could beat Uridium in under 20 minutes. Sure, the C64 is technically an 8-bit micro—not a “PC” in the strictest sense—but I also played Dangerous Dave on DOS. That took about 30 minutes.

        What about much more modern games? A few months ago, I played Virginia (2016). I was done in one sitting. It took me an hour and a half.

        Which brings us back to the real question: what does it mean to “understand” a game? Is it the same as completing it?

        I don’t think so. Plenty of games aren’t even meant to be completed. Take puzzle games. Tetris, for instance, never ends—just speeds up until you die. That’s still a PC game, by the way. It launched on DOS before it ever hit arcades or home consoles.

        And even for games that do have an ending, completion doesn’t necessarily equal comprehension. What’s the point of dragging yourself through 30 hours of crap just to say you finished it? I’ve done that with bad games—and trust me, the only thing I gained was regret. Pongo, for example. I played that mess to the bitter end. I don’t understand it any better than I did five minutes in. I just feel cheated out of my time.

        Most games tell you what they’re about in the first five minutes. If it’s unresponsive, broken, or filled with jank right out of the gate, that’s usually your cue to uninstall. And I’m not just talking about asset flips.

        Elder Scrolls: Arena stinks. It’s got one of the worst control schemes I’ve ever witnessed. And even by the standards of 1995, it is an ugly game. No, I haven’t finished Arena, nor do I intend to—I have suffered enough. I gave it a solid 30 minutes—everyone told me it was a great—but some games are not worth it.

        Granted, sometimes there are games that massively improve after the first five minutes. Star Wars Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith is a good example of this. Initially, trying to figure out what to do is such a chore. But afterwards, it’s pure bliss. And for this reason, I feel most negative reviews on Steam are wrong.

        But Mysteries of the Sith is an exception—not the rule. Most of the time, if you like a game within five minutes of play, you’ll probably like it 50 hours afterwards.

        If it’s bad at the start, it rarely gets better.

 So no—hundreds of hours aren’t necessary to “get” a game. You don’t owe your time to any title. Five minutes can be enough. And if that five minutes fills you with joy, then the game has already done its job.

        After all, isn’t the point to have fun?

        Jerkface (any/all)J This user is from outside of this forum
        Jerkface (any/all)J This user is from outside of this forum
        Jerkface (any/all)
        wrote last edited by jerkface@lemmy.ca
        #21

        Good games allow thousands, tens of thousands, limitless investment in skills and mechanics. They are simple and don’t depend on plot or lore. That other stuff? That isn’t “game.” It’s literature.

        1 Reply Last reply
        2
        • B bronzebeard@lemm.ee

          20 minutes is enough to get an idea if a game is going to be fun or not.

          L This user is from outside of this forum
          L This user is from outside of this forum
          ltxrtquq@lemmy.ml
          wrote last edited by
          #22

          You can’t just write off Skyrim like that, unless of course you’re forced to play it unmodded.

          B 1 Reply Last reply
          2
          • A atomicpoet@lemmy.world

            How long should you play a game before you truly understand it?

            There’s a certain contingent of PC gamers who believe you need to spend hundreds of hours with a title before you’re allowed to form an opinion. Especially in online spaces, it’s common to see someone discredited for “only” playing 10 hours—as if they just sniffed the box and walked away.

            I get it… kind of. If we’re talking about something massive and layered like Skyrim, then sure. One playthrough can take weeks out of your life. But is that the standard?

            Take a glance at GOG, which often lists average completion times. Here’s a small sample:

            • Kingdom Come: Deliverance - 41.5 hours
            • Deus Ex - 22.5 hours
            • Frostpunk - 10.5 hours
            • The Invincible - 6.5 hours
            • Project Warlock - 4 hours

            That’s a huge range. Why?

            Mostly genre. The more RPG-like a game is, the longer it will take to finish. But the more arcade-y a game is, the tighter the runtime.

            But there’s this myth—especially among purists—that a “real” PC game shouldn’t feel arcade-y. That PC games are meant to be vast, deep, and long.

            I’ve been a PC gamer for decades. That idea’s nonsense.

            When I had a physical Commodore 64, I could beat Uridium in under 20 minutes. Sure, the C64 is technically an 8-bit micro—not a “PC” in the strictest sense—but I also played Dangerous Dave on DOS. That took about 30 minutes.

            What about much more modern games? A few months ago, I played Virginia (2016). I was done in one sitting. It took me an hour and a half.

            Which brings us back to the real question: what does it mean to “understand” a game? Is it the same as completing it?

            I don’t think so. Plenty of games aren’t even meant to be completed. Take puzzle games. Tetris, for instance, never ends—just speeds up until you die. That’s still a PC game, by the way. It launched on DOS before it ever hit arcades or home consoles.

            And even for games that do have an ending, completion doesn’t necessarily equal comprehension. What’s the point of dragging yourself through 30 hours of crap just to say you finished it? I’ve done that with bad games—and trust me, the only thing I gained was regret. Pongo, for example. I played that mess to the bitter end. I don’t understand it any better than I did five minutes in. I just feel cheated out of my time.

            Most games tell you what they’re about in the first five minutes. If it’s unresponsive, broken, or filled with jank right out of the gate, that’s usually your cue to uninstall. And I’m not just talking about asset flips.

            Elder Scrolls: Arena stinks. It’s got one of the worst control schemes I’ve ever witnessed. And even by the standards of 1995, it is an ugly game. No, I haven’t finished Arena, nor do I intend to—I have suffered enough. I gave it a solid 30 minutes—everyone told me it was a great—but some games are not worth it.

            Granted, sometimes there are games that massively improve after the first five minutes. Star Wars Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith is a good example of this. Initially, trying to figure out what to do is such a chore. But afterwards, it’s pure bliss. And for this reason, I feel most negative reviews on Steam are wrong.

            But Mysteries of the Sith is an exception—not the rule. Most of the time, if you like a game within five minutes of play, you’ll probably like it 50 hours afterwards.

            If it’s bad at the start, it rarely gets better.

 So no—hundreds of hours aren’t necessary to “get” a game. You don’t owe your time to any title. Five minutes can be enough. And if that five minutes fills you with joy, then the game has already done its job.

            After all, isn’t the point to have fun?

            nichtelias@sh.itjust.worksN This user is from outside of this forum
            nichtelias@sh.itjust.worksN This user is from outside of this forum
            nichtelias@sh.itjust.works
            wrote last edited by
            #23

            The more RPG-like a game is, the longer it will take to finish.

            Me, looking at my friend’s and my current Factorio: Space Age save that’s half finished at ~100 hours: Am I playing an RPG?

            1 Reply Last reply
            2
            • L ltxrtquq@lemmy.ml

              You can’t just write off Skyrim like that, unless of course you’re forced to play it unmodded.

              B This user is from outside of this forum
              B This user is from outside of this forum
              bronzebeard@lemm.ee
              wrote last edited by
              #24

              …at what point did I write off Skyrim?

              I L 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • A atomicpoet@lemmy.world

                How long should you play a game before you truly understand it?

                There’s a certain contingent of PC gamers who believe you need to spend hundreds of hours with a title before you’re allowed to form an opinion. Especially in online spaces, it’s common to see someone discredited for “only” playing 10 hours—as if they just sniffed the box and walked away.

                I get it… kind of. If we’re talking about something massive and layered like Skyrim, then sure. One playthrough can take weeks out of your life. But is that the standard?

                Take a glance at GOG, which often lists average completion times. Here’s a small sample:

                • Kingdom Come: Deliverance - 41.5 hours
                • Deus Ex - 22.5 hours
                • Frostpunk - 10.5 hours
                • The Invincible - 6.5 hours
                • Project Warlock - 4 hours

                That’s a huge range. Why?

                Mostly genre. The more RPG-like a game is, the longer it will take to finish. But the more arcade-y a game is, the tighter the runtime.

                But there’s this myth—especially among purists—that a “real” PC game shouldn’t feel arcade-y. That PC games are meant to be vast, deep, and long.

                I’ve been a PC gamer for decades. That idea’s nonsense.

                When I had a physical Commodore 64, I could beat Uridium in under 20 minutes. Sure, the C64 is technically an 8-bit micro—not a “PC” in the strictest sense—but I also played Dangerous Dave on DOS. That took about 30 minutes.

                What about much more modern games? A few months ago, I played Virginia (2016). I was done in one sitting. It took me an hour and a half.

                Which brings us back to the real question: what does it mean to “understand” a game? Is it the same as completing it?

                I don’t think so. Plenty of games aren’t even meant to be completed. Take puzzle games. Tetris, for instance, never ends—just speeds up until you die. That’s still a PC game, by the way. It launched on DOS before it ever hit arcades or home consoles.

                And even for games that do have an ending, completion doesn’t necessarily equal comprehension. What’s the point of dragging yourself through 30 hours of crap just to say you finished it? I’ve done that with bad games—and trust me, the only thing I gained was regret. Pongo, for example. I played that mess to the bitter end. I don’t understand it any better than I did five minutes in. I just feel cheated out of my time.

                Most games tell you what they’re about in the first five minutes. If it’s unresponsive, broken, or filled with jank right out of the gate, that’s usually your cue to uninstall. And I’m not just talking about asset flips.

                Elder Scrolls: Arena stinks. It’s got one of the worst control schemes I’ve ever witnessed. And even by the standards of 1995, it is an ugly game. No, I haven’t finished Arena, nor do I intend to—I have suffered enough. I gave it a solid 30 minutes—everyone told me it was a great—but some games are not worth it.

                Granted, sometimes there are games that massively improve after the first five minutes. Star Wars Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith is a good example of this. Initially, trying to figure out what to do is such a chore. But afterwards, it’s pure bliss. And for this reason, I feel most negative reviews on Steam are wrong.

                But Mysteries of the Sith is an exception—not the rule. Most of the time, if you like a game within five minutes of play, you’ll probably like it 50 hours afterwards.

                If it’s bad at the start, it rarely gets better.

 So no—hundreds of hours aren’t necessary to “get” a game. You don’t owe your time to any title. Five minutes can be enough. And if that five minutes fills you with joy, then the game has already done its job.

                After all, isn’t the point to have fun?

                I This user is from outside of this forum
                I This user is from outside of this forum
                iegod@lemm.ee
                wrote last edited by
                #25

                It’s all subjective and there are no wrong answers but gatekeeping is definitely silly. Let people prefer what they want.

                1 Reply Last reply
                1
                • B bronzebeard@lemm.ee

                  …at what point did I write off Skyrim?

                  I This user is from outside of this forum
                  I This user is from outside of this forum
                  iegod@lemm.ee
                  wrote last edited by
                  #26

                  Bruh that was a joke.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  1
                  • A atomicpoet@lemmy.world

                    But you know that you’re bored.

                    That doesn’t mean you’re an expert. It does mean that there’s something about that game that keeps you from playing further.

                    O This user is from outside of this forum
                    O This user is from outside of this forum
                    overload@sopuli.xyz
                    wrote last edited by
                    #27

                    That’s true, I certainly hold the valid opinion of my reasons for dropping the game.

                    I also didn’t find the story gripping enough to keep going, but it would be another thing for me to go online and start expressing opinions about the slow paced, seemingly by the numbers, story that I saw in my 8 hours with the game (I’m sure it must get better by everyone’s praising it)

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                    0
                    • B bronzebeard@lemm.ee

                      …at what point did I write off Skyrim?

                      L This user is from outside of this forum
                      L This user is from outside of this forum
                      ltxrtquq@lemmy.ml
                      wrote last edited by
                      #28

                      The first 20 minutes of skyrim is a wagon ride. It was a joke.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0

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