Thanks DnD
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“Charisma is about sex appeal” is funny, but that’s not really entirely accurate. It’s about motivating others towards your goals whatever that may be, having a presence that commands attention and being a good communicator. That’s why charisma helps disparate skills like lying, persuading, intimidating, and performing. Sex appeal may superficially help some of those things, but so does a half-giant that makes you piss yourself with their mere presence, or an old fat guy who speaks with clarity of conviction and intelligence. Ain’t nobody want to fuck Winston Churchill, and he was an asshole as well. But he was a very charismatic figure, still.
Charisma is essentially Social Skills.
Social Skills definitely help you get laid, but also convince a shopkeeper to give you a discount, persuade a guard to look the other way, etc.
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“Charisma is about sex appeal” is funny, but that’s not really entirely accurate. It’s about motivating others towards your goals whatever that may be, having a presence that commands attention and being a good communicator. That’s why charisma helps disparate skills like lying, persuading, intimidating, and performing. Sex appeal may superficially help some of those things, but so does a half-giant that makes you piss yourself with their mere presence, or an old fat guy who speaks with clarity of conviction and intelligence. Ain’t nobody want to fuck Winston Churchill, and he was an asshole as well. But he was a very charismatic figure, still.
One of the things I liked about the Chronicles of Darkness system is it cleared this up nicely. Stats were in a 3x3 grid.
One axis was physical, mental, social
The other was Power, Finesse, Resistance.
Want to shove something? Physical + Power. That’s strength.
Want to figure out a riddle? Mental + Finesse. That’s
DexterityWits. (Edit: wrote dexterity originally, meant Wits)Command attention? Social + Power. That’s the Presence stat.
Lie and misdirect? Social + Finesse. Stat was called Manipulation.
Now you can have a character that’s commanding without also being a natural liar and flirt. DND doesn’t help let you do that because the concepts are bundled together into a single stat.
(You could invest separately into like Expression for making speeches and Deception for lying, of course)
Humans are rated 1 to 5, where a 5 is the peak of human capability. Presence 5 is like AAA movie stars and great leaders.
Of course, if you add supernaturals to your game a starting chump vampire could have seven presence if they take Majesty as their power, and become a nearly irresistible magnet of attention.
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I have never seen Intelligence contrasted with Wisdom in a way that felt fitting. Does an intelligent person not know when not to speak?
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“Charisma is about sex appeal” is funny, but that’s not really entirely accurate. It’s about motivating others towards your goals whatever that may be, having a presence that commands attention and being a good communicator. That’s why charisma helps disparate skills like lying, persuading, intimidating, and performing. Sex appeal may superficially help some of those things, but so does a half-giant that makes you piss yourself with their mere presence, or an old fat guy who speaks with clarity of conviction and intelligence. Ain’t nobody want to fuck Winston Churchill, and he was an asshole as well. But he was a very charismatic figure, still.
My prime example would be Donald Trump. Hideously looking and true evil while dumping strength, dexterity, constitution (unfortunately not enough), intelligence and wisdom, but he undeniably has at least an 18 in charisma.
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Incorrect. Commoner is all 10s
i like how according to this everyone just has a big stick stowed away somehere
edit: wait now that i looked again, those are the exact stats for a fist in pf2e if you were level 0 and trained in unarmed attacks
assuming dnd fists work similarly, why didn’t they just put in a fist instead of a club?
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10 is average for an adventuring hero. Not necessarily for most “civilians” if you want to call them that.
Edit: I stand corrected. Must have confused it with some other system or an older edition.
12.5 is average for an adventuring hero using the standard array plus typical adjustments for race.
Even if you roll 3d6 across the board with no adjustments, old school, 10.5 is average.
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Charisma is essentially Social Skills.
Social Skills definitely help you get laid, but also convince a shopkeeper to give you a discount, persuade a guard to look the other way, etc.
Not really. It’s more broad and includes it’s original meaning of divine grace or presence. Why would sorcerer’s spellcasting ability be charisma? It’s broader than social charisma since sorcerer’s cast with their innate abilities.
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Wisdom is such a weird attribute in ttrpgs, it is often overloaded with the concept of perception. But at the same time I don’t necessarily think it should be split to it’s own thing, more attributes aren’t necessarily better.
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10 is average for an adventuring hero. Not necessarily for most “civilians” if you want to call them that.
Edit: I stand corrected. Must have confused it with some other system or an older edition.
Incorrect, 10 is the average for the average human.
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i like how according to this everyone just has a big stick stowed away somehere
edit: wait now that i looked again, those are the exact stats for a fist in pf2e if you were level 0 and trained in unarmed attacks
assuming dnd fists work similarly, why didn’t they just put in a fist instead of a club?
I was like “do I?” And looked around my room for the first thing I could use as an improvised club and my eyes landed on a sex toy.
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I have never seen Intelligence contrasted with Wisdom in a way that felt fitting. Does an intelligent person not know when not to speak?
_
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Those are SO not in the order I remember back when I used to pay.
It was:
STR
INT
WIS
DEX
CON
CHA.As an added bonus, I remember the coin on the character sheets as being:
Gold
Silver
Copper
Platinum
ElectrumProbably helps to know I played in the late 70’s when campaigns like Keep on the Borderlands was a new thing and came in a box.
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Int is knowing what you’re talking about
Wis is knowing when to talk
Cha is when people listen to you
What was the old saying?
Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom Is knowing not to bake it into a cake.
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What was the old saying?
Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom Is knowing not to bake it into a cake.
wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad
charisma is selling salsa
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I was like “do I?” And looked around my room for the first thing I could use as an improvised club and my eyes landed on a sex toy.
well it’ll work
unless it’s too flexible, idk what kind of toy it is
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wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad
charisma is selling salsa
Hah! Good one!
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CHA is knowing what to say to get what you want.
A paladin uses CHA because they have to know exactly what to say to their deity to get the result they need. If they can’t rizz up their gods, they get no power.
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Wisdom is such a weird attribute in ttrpgs, it is often overloaded with the concept of perception. But at the same time I don’t necessarily think it should be split to it’s own thing, more attributes aren’t necessarily better.
I think fallout’s S.P.E.C.I.A.L works quite well.
Wisdom isn’t a thing by itself, it’s split between perception, charisma, and intelligence, for the most part.
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Those are SO not in the order I remember back when I used to pay.
It was:
STR
INT
WIS
DEX
CON
CHA.As an added bonus, I remember the coin on the character sheets as being:
Gold
Silver
Copper
Platinum
ElectrumProbably helps to know I played in the late 70’s when campaigns like Keep on the Borderlands was a new thing and came in a box.
Hey, I’m all for nostalgia, but reordering it to separate the physical stats from the mental ones was a very good idea. I’m pretty sure my first game back when I was… 10? (long time ago)… also used the Str Int Wis order. But you know… that order got changed REAL fast… 2e, iirc. And good riddance.
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Vitality: Whatever it is that makes wild hogs unkillable.
