Skip to content
0
  • Home
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
  • Home
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (Sketchy)
  • No Skin
Collapse

Wandering Adventure Party

  1. Home
  2. Uncategorized
  3. On adapting Keep on the Borderlands and the case for never running games as written #ttrpg https://tasker.land/2026/02/17/the-borderlands-unsettled/

On adapting Keep on the Borderlands and the case for never running games as written #ttrpg https://tasker.land/2026/02/17/the-borderlands-unsettled/

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Uncategorized
ttrpg
36 Posts 10 Posters 1 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

    Obviously, if regular gamers get used to the idea that they can just reskin or kitbash rules they already own then they are less likely to spend money on another minute variation on games they already own, and where would the crowd-funding hashtags be if people decided they didn't need yet another D&D or PbtA variant?

    Play and mess with games you already own. Stop spending money on #ttrpg materials you won't play, don't read, and most likely won't even take out of their packaging.

    S. John RossS This user is from outside of this forum
    S. John RossS This user is from outside of this forum
    S. John Ross
    wrote last edited by
    #6

    @Taskerland Well now I'm trying to remember the most recent RPG thing I bought that had _packaging._ 😮

    I'm literally not sure.

    Maybe something in shrinkwrap in the early 2000s? 🤔

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

      @SJohnRoss So you don't think that there was a broad design trend from the mid-to-late 1980s onwards towards narrower and more regimented adventure design?

      Obviously I've completely failed to understand your complaints about low trust gaming.

      S. John RossS This user is from outside of this forum
      S. John RossS This user is from outside of this forum
      S. John Ross
      wrote last edited by
      #7

      @Taskerland I don't actually _have_ any complaints about low-trust gaming. But if I had any, I doubt they'd be less prone to misunderstanding than anything else I say on the matter. 😅

      And I think, of the dozens of adventure-design trends of the mid-to-late 1980s onwards, _some_ of them include narrower and more regimented designs for certain values of "regimented" and "narrower."

      But many, including the dominant trends of entire game lines, do not.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

        Obviously, if regular gamers get used to the idea that they can just reskin or kitbash rules they already own then they are less likely to spend money on another minute variation on games they already own, and where would the crowd-funding hashtags be if people decided they didn't need yet another D&D or PbtA variant?

        Play and mess with games you already own. Stop spending money on #ttrpg materials you won't play, don't read, and most likely won't even take out of their packaging.

        Roger BW 😷R This user is from outside of this forum
        Roger BW 😷R This user is from outside of this forum
        Roger BW 😷
        wrote last edited by
        #8

        @Taskerland And quite possibly the game tailored with your group in mind may suit them better than anything off-the-peg.

        Moreau VazhT S. John RossS 2 Replies Last reply
        0
        • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

          Obviously, if regular gamers get used to the idea that they can just reskin or kitbash rules they already own then they are less likely to spend money on another minute variation on games they already own, and where would the crowd-funding hashtags be if people decided they didn't need yet another D&D or PbtA variant?

          Play and mess with games you already own. Stop spending money on #ttrpg materials you won't play, don't read, and most likely won't even take out of their packaging.

          CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
          CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
          Charnock
          wrote last edited by
          #9

          @Taskerland Leaving you bundles more money to spend on old paperstock on ebay to print props on.

          I find it odd that there was ever a movement away from reskinning or kitbashing your own games. When we played in the 1980s that was de rigeur. It would have been unthinkable (outside of the btb D&D peeps) to play RPGs any other way.

          Moreau VazhT Colman ReillyC 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • Roger BW 😷R Roger BW 😷

            @Taskerland And quite possibly the game tailored with your group in mind may suit them better than anything off-the-peg.

            Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
            Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
            Moreau Vazh
            wrote last edited by
            #10

            @RogerBW Exactly. Often for the simple reason that GM buy-in is a lot more consequential at the table than elegant design.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • Roger BW 😷R Roger BW 😷

              @Taskerland And quite possibly the game tailored with your group in mind may suit them better than anything off-the-peg.

              S. John RossS This user is from outside of this forum
              S. John RossS This user is from outside of this forum
              S. John Ross
              wrote last edited by
              #11

              @RogerBW @Taskerland "Tailored" is an excellent choice of terms in this context.

              "GM-as-tailor" is something I really value from the player side of things (when I'm fortunate to have a GM who includes that in their sack of roles).

              Roger BW 😷R 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • S. John RossS S. John Ross

                @RogerBW @Taskerland "Tailored" is an excellent choice of terms in this context.

                "GM-as-tailor" is something I really value from the player side of things (when I'm fortunate to have a GM who includes that in their sack of roles).

                Roger BW 😷R This user is from outside of this forum
                Roger BW 😷R This user is from outside of this forum
                Roger BW 😷
                wrote last edited by
                #12

                @SJohnRoss @Taskerland I particularly use it to remind myself that I shouldn't expect to perform the whole process from bored sheep to well-dressed customer. I take cloth other people have made and adapt it to my purpose.

                S. John RossS 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • CharnockP Charnock

                  @Taskerland Leaving you bundles more money to spend on old paperstock on ebay to print props on.

                  I find it odd that there was ever a movement away from reskinning or kitbashing your own games. When we played in the 1980s that was de rigeur. It would have been unthinkable (outside of the btb D&D peeps) to play RPGs any other way.

                  Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
                  Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
                  Moreau Vazh
                  wrote last edited by
                  #13

                  @Printdevil I think it is a function of rpg social media being heavily parasocial and designers complaining.

                  They have even started using the term "casuals" to refer to people who aren't actively trying to monetise their hobbies.

                  Chef-Patron class consciousness in action.

                  CharnockP 2 Replies Last reply
                  0
                  • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

                    On adapting Keep on the Borderlands and the case for never running games as written #ttrpg
                    https://tasker.land/2026/02/17/the-borderlands-unsettled/

                    CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
                    CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
                    Charnock
                    wrote last edited by
                    #14

                    @Taskerland I think Keep on the Borderlands is narratively important in the development of gaming for many 80s players for all the reasons that you found voids in it. We found those, but the existence of npcs and their lives was quite compelling, so we filled in. It was for many people the first time we fleshed out a scenario to make it breath, to create the social ergs. Vectors of interaction. You can actually see it *should* be there but they had no language for it.

                    Moreau VazhT 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

                      @Printdevil I think it is a function of rpg social media being heavily parasocial and designers complaining.

                      They have even started using the term "casuals" to refer to people who aren't actively trying to monetise their hobbies.

                      Chef-Patron class consciousness in action.

                      CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
                      CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
                      Charnock
                      wrote last edited by
                      #15

                      @Taskerland That's just viewing people like us as itinerants on the commons that need "fenced away"

                      It's worse than chef and patrons I feel.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • Roger BW 😷R Roger BW 😷

                        @SJohnRoss @Taskerland I particularly use it to remind myself that I shouldn't expect to perform the whole process from bored sheep to well-dressed customer. I take cloth other people have made and adapt it to my purpose.

                        S. John RossS This user is from outside of this forum
                        S. John RossS This user is from outside of this forum
                        S. John Ross
                        wrote last edited by
                        #16

                        @RogerBW @Taskerland Yeah, I often do the same and it's a pretty joyful way to go about it. 😊

                        Sometimes I do the sheep thing, too, but even then, I mix in some retailored works for variety.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

                          @Printdevil I think it is a function of rpg social media being heavily parasocial and designers complaining.

                          They have even started using the term "casuals" to refer to people who aren't actively trying to monetise their hobbies.

                          Chef-Patron class consciousness in action.

                          CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
                          CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
                          Charnock
                          wrote last edited by
                          #17

                          @Taskerland I still think a huge tension in monetising gaming is caused by it being easy to give tips on "how to make better ceilings for your mega dungeon" than "how to deal with Derek who takes his socks and shoes off during the game"

                          The social contract of gaming is the important flex of it all, but also the hardest part to advise without sounding parental or patronising or both.

                          Or a psycho.

                          Which to be fair is probably my parental advice approach.

                          Moreau VazhT 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • CharnockP Charnock

                            @Taskerland I still think a huge tension in monetising gaming is caused by it being easy to give tips on "how to make better ceilings for your mega dungeon" than "how to deal with Derek who takes his socks and shoes off during the game"

                            The social contract of gaming is the important flex of it all, but also the hardest part to advise without sounding parental or patronising or both.

                            Or a psycho.

                            Which to be fair is probably my parental advice approach.

                            Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
                            Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
                            Moreau Vazh
                            wrote last edited by
                            #18

                            @Printdevil I used to play with a guy who used to wander around without shoes or socks and he'd often ask to borrow a pencil and then spend the entire game rubbing it between his toes.

                            CharnockP Kera VortiwifeV 2 Replies Last reply
                            0
                            • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

                              @Printdevil I used to play with a guy who used to wander around without shoes or socks and he'd often ask to borrow a pencil and then spend the entire game rubbing it between his toes.

                              CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
                              CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
                              Charnock
                              wrote last edited by
                              #19

                              @Taskerland See, very little of that in the youtube advice cycle.

                              Moreau VazhT 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • CharnockP Charnock

                                @Taskerland See, very little of that in the youtube advice cycle.

                                Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
                                Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
                                Moreau Vazh
                                wrote last edited by
                                #20

                                @Printdevil That guy became a weird anti-fetish object for my best friend at the time. He used to just use the idea of what he might do to wind himself up.

                                He'd sit in silence, looking like a bulldog chewing on a wasp and I'd ask what was wrong and he'd say he was angry because he had imagined said weirdo sending him a photograph of his penis.

                                CharnockP 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • CharnockP Charnock

                                  @Taskerland I think Keep on the Borderlands is narratively important in the development of gaming for many 80s players for all the reasons that you found voids in it. We found those, but the existence of npcs and their lives was quite compelling, so we filled in. It was for many people the first time we fleshed out a scenario to make it breath, to create the social ergs. Vectors of interaction. You can actually see it *should* be there but they had no language for it.

                                  Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Moreau VazhT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Moreau Vazh
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #21

                                  @Printdevil And it's interesting that it is a fruitful void whereas the lack of a town in Saltmarsh feels like doing someone else's homework and the lack of actual factions despite Hommlet gesturing towards them makes the adventure feel unfinished.

                                  CharnockP 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

                                    @Printdevil That guy became a weird anti-fetish object for my best friend at the time. He used to just use the idea of what he might do to wind himself up.

                                    He'd sit in silence, looking like a bulldog chewing on a wasp and I'd ask what was wrong and he'd say he was angry because he had imagined said weirdo sending him a photograph of his penis.

                                    CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
                                    CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Charnock
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #22

                                    @Taskerland Someone I used to play with used to make a weird chewing sound before he rolled dice then sucked air inbetween a gap in his teeth, before it slowly whistled out. Then he'd roll, and go back to speaking normally. Till the next time he had to roll a die.

                                    He is now embedded in the support concrete pylons of a local bridge.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

                                      @Printdevil And it's interesting that it is a fruitful void whereas the lack of a town in Saltmarsh feels like doing someone else's homework and the lack of actual factions despite Hommlet gesturing towards them makes the adventure feel unfinished.

                                      CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
                                      CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Charnock
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #23

                                      @Taskerland I think that reflects on the authors as well as the culture.

                                      I always think Secret of Bone Hill was the point at which TSR reached where scenario design should have been going, gathering up the strands the good bits of KotB and the lower normalcy of Saltmarsh.

                                      I just seem to be in a minority because people wanted "Ceilings of the Dwarven Claustrophobes, a ninety level dungeon of thoughtless massacre"

                                      Which then ushered in WoD

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

                                        On adapting Keep on the Borderlands and the case for never running games as written #ttrpg
                                        https://tasker.land/2026/02/17/the-borderlands-unsettled/

                                        CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
                                        CharnockP This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Charnock
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #24

                                        @Taskerland "My version of the Keep is a colonialist outpost, and the Caves of Chaos are a kind of refugee camp for non-human peoples who have been forced off their land by human colonisation. The inhabitants of the Caves are not monstrous but scared, hungry, and distrustful of humans."

                                        Oddly, that is how we always ran it, after the age of about.. 11. I wonder was something in gaming lost along the way.

                                        Or is that an Irish thing about being a colony in living memory.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • Moreau VazhT Moreau Vazh

                                          @Printdevil I used to play with a guy who used to wander around without shoes or socks and he'd often ask to borrow a pencil and then spend the entire game rubbing it between his toes.

                                          Kera VortiwifeV This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Kera VortiwifeV This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Kera Vortiwife
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #25

                                          @Taskerland @Printdevil SERIAL KILLER BEHAVIOR

                                          AlatheaP 1 Reply Last reply
                                          0

                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          Powered by NodeBB Contributors
                                          • First post
                                            Last post