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  3. Handheld PC makers are slowly losing touch with Valve's successful Steam Deck template of affordability, and that's very concerning

Handheld PC makers are slowly losing touch with Valve's successful Steam Deck template of affordability, and that's very concerning

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved PC Gaming
pcgaming
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  • localhorst86@feddit.orgL localhorst86@feddit.org

    This is nothing new. Before the steam deck came out, Handheld PCs have already been overpriced expensive. Other manufacturers haven’t bothered about affordability before, during ot after the steam deck.

    That said, Gabe Newell said the steam deck was priced “painfully”, which means they probably had very low margins on the hardware and are making it back on sales on their store. Other manufacturers do not have that luxury.

    appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
    appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
    appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    wrote last edited by
    #34

    I wouldnt call devices like the GPDwin overpriced considering it’s probably lower volume production and niche use case.
    But they are overpriced in direct performance comparison.

    1 Reply Last reply
    7
    • zecg@lemmy.worldZ zecg@lemmy.world

      Other manufacturers do not have that luxury.

      They can find some margin in using a rolling Arch distro instead of paying for Windows, Gabe helpfully provided the template that you can reuse.

      appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
      appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
      appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      wrote last edited by
      #35

      I am not aware that you are able to use SteamOS on anything that isnt an AMD CPU and GPU (only APU?).

      If it’s not yet generally available for any hardware combination it would be very tempting to switch.
      Already used the desktop of the deck quite a bit to customize some behaviour (automatic start of syncthing after (game-mode) boot to sync save states to my PC, EmuDeck, emulators in general)

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • A absolutelynotavelociraptor@sh.itjust.works

        If only there was something to be done to slash the price while not losing anything important like using an OS that is FREE… But alas, there’s no such thing, I guess we’ll have to stick with windows, adding the license price to a hardware that is already expensive…

        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        wrote last edited by
        #36

        Who supports that?
        At least Windows is only one plattform in comparison to the bazillion linux-distros.

        Same issue devs face with consoles vs PCs.

        A N 2 Replies Last reply
        1
        • F fartmaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com

          I mean, I don’t know valve’s margins but strategically they could sell steam decks at a loss and still come out ahead.

          appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
          appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
          appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          wrote last edited by
          #37

          I believe some youtubers mentioned (maybe Tyler McVicker or some other in the space) that they are razor sharp margins and border on being profitable just like a console manufacturer.

          1 Reply Last reply
          7
          • C cronenthal@discuss.tchncs.de

            I wouldn’t compare a Steam Deck with living accommodations, but ok.

            nuko147@lemmy.worldN This user is from outside of this forum
            nuko147@lemmy.worldN This user is from outside of this forum
            nuko147@lemmy.world
            wrote last edited by
            #38

            I don’t. I’m just telling another example of the ‘free’ market.

            1 Reply Last reply
            6
            • localhorst86@feddit.orgL localhorst86@feddit.org

              This is nothing new. Before the steam deck came out, Handheld PCs have already been overpriced expensive. Other manufacturers haven’t bothered about affordability before, during ot after the steam deck.

              That said, Gabe Newell said the steam deck was priced “painfully”, which means they probably had very low margins on the hardware and are making it back on sales on their store. Other manufacturers do not have that luxury.

              F This user is from outside of this forum
              F This user is from outside of this forum
              frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              wrote last edited by
              #39

              Steam Deck hits a sweet spot. You can make it more powerful, but it’ll cost significantly more. You can make it cheaper, but you’ll cut out too many games people want to play.

              Also, anything like this with a resolution higher than 720p is wasting pixels and GPU power, IMO.

              A 1 Reply Last reply
              34
              • appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                Who supports that?
                At least Windows is only one plattform in comparison to the bazillion linux-distros.

                Same issue devs face with consoles vs PCs.

                A This user is from outside of this forum
                A This user is from outside of this forum
                absolutelynotavelociraptor@sh.itjust.works
                wrote last edited by
                #40

                Tell me you know don’t jack about linux without telling me you don’t know jack about linux in 25 words or less.

                appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 1 Reply Last reply
                13
                • troedT troed

                  let’s say that you can only trust iPhone as “paradigm of safety” (lol)

                  Feel free to research the consensus opinion by cybersecurity professionals instead of just continously showing off your own ignorance.

                  what are your kids doing that need of the highest tier phone to guarantee the highest level of security

                  They, as human beings, have the right to their privacy.

                  You just answered my previous question; “Do you consider kids to be actual people?”; and the answer is apparently “no”.

                  Btw, you don’t get the newest high end iPhone for 900 EUR. You might want to get a lot more facts behind your arguments before trying to show off online.

                  A This user is from outside of this forum
                  A This user is from outside of this forum
                  absolutelynotavelociraptor@sh.itjust.works
                  wrote last edited by absolutelynotavelociraptor@sh.itjust.works
                  #41

                  So many words to not answer even one of my questions, “expert”.

                  troedT 1 Reply Last reply
                  1
                  • A absolutelynotavelociraptor@sh.itjust.works

                    So many words to not answer even one of my questions, “expert”.

                    troedT This user is from outside of this forum
                    troedT This user is from outside of this forum
                    troed
                    wrote last edited by
                    #42

                    Why should I answer when those questions include statements that aren’t true? (That’s called the “loaded question” fallacy, btw).

                    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question

                    900 EUR is what the previous iPhone model, in its lowest configuration, costs atm. Compare to your “highest tier” which is part of the question you want me to answer.

                    Answer this instead: Why is it so important for you to voice opinions on things you know nothing about on the Internet?

                    A 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • A absolutelynotavelociraptor@sh.itjust.works

                      Tell me you know don’t jack about linux without telling me you don’t know jack about linux in 25 words or less.

                      appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                      appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                      appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                      wrote last edited by appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                      #43

                      Well then: Clear it up.

                      I run headless debian VMs at home on a proxmox HV and another NUC with Debian that does Docker tasks.
                      My steckdeck runs the stock OS and am not scared to tinker within it.

                      Never assumed to be a pro and would consider an amateur at best that isnt scared to tinker.
                      It’s just that I prefer convenience most of the time.

                      So then. These are my cards. Explain what I learned wrong about the fractured linux ecosystem.
                      So far I know that Arch, Debian and RHEL the biggest distro families are.

                      Edit: Very helpful. Downvoting instead of telling me where I am wrong.
                      (Yes my comment was provocative but absolutelynotavelociraptor@sh.itjust.works should just tell where I am wrong if they are so sure of themselve).

                      G 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.comD This user is from outside of this forum
                        dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.comD This user is from outside of this forum
                        dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                        wrote last edited by dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                        #44

                        why cant valve optimise their new games specifically for their hardware steam deck? why is that impossible?

                        troedT 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • V Voytrekk

                          I doubt Windows is the reason these are more expensive. Microsoft wants Windows in the handheld PC space, so they are likely to provide licenses for free and likely help subsidize the costs a bit, especially if they include trials for gamepass.

                          A This user is from outside of this forum
                          A This user is from outside of this forum
                          atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works
                          wrote last edited by
                          #45

                          Except that Windows versions of the same handheld are more expensive.

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • zecg@lemmy.worldZ zecg@lemmy.world

                            Other manufacturers do not have that luxury.

                            They can find some margin in using a rolling Arch distro instead of paying for Windows, Gabe helpfully provided the template that you can reuse.

                            K This user is from outside of this forum
                            K This user is from outside of this forum
                            korhaka@sopuli.xyz
                            wrote last edited by
                            #46

                            Which if anything is other manufacturers benefiting from the R&D that Valve have done with Proton and just making it freely available to anyone.

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • B Beacon

                              All the kids i know either have hand-me-down phones or new phones that’re at most mid-range or multiple generations old. I.E. the large majority of kids aren’t using 900 dollar phones

                              M This user is from outside of this forum
                              M This user is from outside of this forum
                              mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works
                              wrote last edited by
                              #47

                              OK? Give it a couple more years and I bet you’ll start seeing that with handheld PC’s too

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • troedT troed

                                Why should I answer when those questions include statements that aren’t true? (That’s called the “loaded question” fallacy, btw).

                                https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question

                                900 EUR is what the previous iPhone model, in its lowest configuration, costs atm. Compare to your “highest tier” which is part of the question you want me to answer.

                                Answer this instead: Why is it so important for you to voice opinions on things you know nothing about on the Internet?

                                A This user is from outside of this forum
                                A This user is from outside of this forum
                                absolutelynotavelociraptor@sh.itjust.works
                                wrote last edited by
                                #48

                                And yet, you still haven’t answered my question: what gives you a 900€ phone in terms of security that a cheaper phone with grapheneOS or a cheaper iphone won’t give you? But keep going with your “i’m the expert” attitude, you are really, REALLY educating me

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.comD dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                                  why cant valve optimise their new games specifically for their hardware steam deck? why is that impossible?

                                  troedT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  troedT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  troed
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #49

                                  It’s not theirs?

                                  dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.comD 1 Reply Last reply
                                  1
                                  • troedT troed

                                    It’s not theirs?

                                    dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.comD This user is from outside of this forum
                                    dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.comD This user is from outside of this forum
                                    dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #50

                                    valve can optimize their games for a steam deck. The steam deck isnt theirs?

                                    N troedT 2 Replies Last reply
                                    0
                                    • F fartmaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                                      I mean, I don’t know valve’s margins but strategically they could sell steam decks at a loss and still come out ahead.

                                      D This user is from outside of this forum
                                      D This user is from outside of this forum
                                      dipcart@lemmy.world
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #51

                                      100%

                                      Before I bought a steam deck I hadn’t used steam in years. Now I’ve bought like 20 games… Its a great way to get people on steam who otherwise wouldnt be interested.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                                        Who supports that?
                                        At least Windows is only one plattform in comparison to the bazillion linux-distros.

                                        Same issue devs face with consoles vs PCs.

                                        N This user is from outside of this forum
                                        N This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Natanael
                                        wrote last edited by natanael@infosec.pub
                                        #52

                                        Steam on Linux defaults to providing a container based standard Linux environment which is independent of the underlying OS, providing access to all the expected software libraries and OS calls that games need to run.

                                        This is integrated into SteamOS. It’s also available via Steam on any other Linux distro. (And if you wanted to you could cut that part out and run it without Steam.)

                                        When running Windows games it even runs Proton within this container environment.

                                        That gives you a single very predictable and version controlled software environment.

                                        Meanwhile Windows randomly deprecates stuff that somebody might have invested tons of development effort into (silverlight, mixed reality, etc)

                                        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.comD dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                                          valve can optimize their games for a steam deck. The steam deck isnt theirs?

                                          N This user is from outside of this forum
                                          N This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Natanael
                                          wrote last edited by natanael@infosec.pub
                                          #53

                                          There’s a lot of similarities and differences - the Steam Deck’s gaming mode is able to run a very barebones OS, similar to the very basic OS that the Nintendo Switch runs, with the game running in comparable sandboxes with stable software interfaces.

                                          But Nintendo worked with Nvidia specifically to develop a variant of their hardware dedicated for gaming, while Valve essentially put a Linux laptop in a handheld console format (IIRC they did get help from AMD, but it wasn’t the same kind of deep collaboration), which notably may have different components between different hardware revisions.

                                          When you try to maximize game performance that makes a difference, because on the Switch you can reliably push the hardware to the limits and expect it to keep working and on a Deck you have to test the hardware before pushing it. And if you find a trick that depends on architectural quirks you have to special-case it to not break on other hardware. There’s no guarantee that rarely used hardware features (both physical, and CPU/GPU instructions, etc) will stick around on a future revision of a Deck, while Nintendo guarantees forward compatibility (with help from Nvidia).

                                          Nintendo even worked with Nvidia to emulate the Switch 1 GPU when running games for the first Switch on a Switch 2! They’re even going so far that they’re patching the emulation layer on a per-game basis to fix games where the default emulation method fails! And the ability to do this depends on knowing the exact properties of the hardware revisions of both the original and new GPU! (there’s architectural differences in the GPU that would break some games unless it was emulated)

                                          Now Lenovo also has devices running SteamOS on different hardware, so games that runs on both either needs special cased optimizations for both, or only generic optimizations, or they simply have to decide to support one specific model better than others (which could end up with a game looking worse on better hardware because the dev didn’t try as hard with that hardware)

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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