Valve Responds To Steam Machine's HDMI 2.1 Display Support Controversy [HW support is there, but "The HDMI forum" doesn’t allow with OpenSource drivers]
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The movie studios. As the person above said, the HDMI consortium (owned by movie studios) is focused on protecting their members IP rights from pirates. HDMI has built in DRM, that could be removed from an open source driver.
Maybe it is the movie studios, but there don’t appear to be any of them on the list of HDMI Forum members, or on its board of directors. So my first guess was some combination of Microsoft, Nvidia, Sony, and Apple. Whoever it is though, the question is how they went about convincing the HDMI Forum as a whole to take such a self-destructive approach.
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That’s great for you, but try to convince one other person who’s not already in your headspace they should not buy any more TVs. That’s almost an impossible ask. Like telling someone not to get an Android or iPhone because of the data collection. Geeks like us can put up with these inconveniences but we’re a very small minority.
People are still going to get the product unless there’s a truly viable alternative available. Until we see a new standard whose goal is to specifically target replacing HDMI in this context, there’s not really any way to suggest people “vote with their wallet” on something as common as HDMI.
I’m not sure what that has to do with what I said. This is about corporations asking consumers to bend over and get fucked, and consumers as a whole repeatedly lining up to take it.
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We don’t flock to it, they are forced upon us. Finding TVs that support DP is almost impossible.
Nothing is forced on anyone. If people refused to buy them they would be forced to add other ports.
However as someone who considers themselves fairly techy and doesn’t comply with such shitfuckery, I only learned about this last week.
Moving forward I just won’t be buying any TVs at all.
Edit: God fucking forbid any of you actually do anything, or even better, refrain from doing anything, besides bitch and moan on the internet.
BFGs with display port do exist as a viable replacement for a TV, but they’re expensive and kinda niche.
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I’m not sure what that has to do with what I said. This is about corporations asking consumers to bend over and get fucked, and consumers as a whole repeatedly lining up to take it.
They’re not lining up to take it though. It’s all they’re given. When HDMI was new, most people skipped component cables entirely and went straight from 480i analog to 720p digital overnight and the only way to do that at the time was HDMI. Years and years later, we still only have HDMI and DP as the two standards and they’re not putting the alternative on TVs.
The consumer does have the responsibility to make the choice, but only when those choices are actually presented to them. If there were DP TVs as available options, I’d agree with your point, but I’m not about to ask my friends to boycott HDMI TVs anytime soon because I know all it will do is inconvenience them and it won’t make a lick of difference in the market.
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They’re not lining up to take it though. It’s all they’re given. When HDMI was new, most people skipped component cables entirely and went straight from 480i analog to 720p digital overnight and the only way to do that at the time was HDMI. Years and years later, we still only have HDMI and DP as the two standards and they’re not putting the alternative on TVs.
The consumer does have the responsibility to make the choice, but only when those choices are actually presented to them. If there were DP TVs as available options, I’d agree with your point, but I’m not about to ask my friends to boycott HDMI TVs anytime soon because I know all it will do is inconvenience them and it won’t make a lick of difference in the market.
They’re not lining up to take it though
They are though.
It’s all they’re given
Then they can choose not to buy anything, or to buy a computer monitor.
it won’t make a lick of difference in the market.
This is the defeatist mentality that keeps them so successful.
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DisplayPort for the win
Sincerely! As someone who dislikes DisplayPort, moves like that makes me want to use it over HDMI.
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They’re not lining up to take it though
They are though.
It’s all they’re given
Then they can choose not to buy anything, or to buy a computer monitor.
it won’t make a lick of difference in the market.
This is the defeatist mentality that keeps them so successful.
Gather ‘round the 27” gaming monitor for the big game this weekend at my place!
Okay sure
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Gather ‘round the 27” gaming monitor for the big game this weekend at my place!
Okay sure
No one is saying it’s great. But that’s the point. You have to choose between convenience and getting fucked. And overwhelmingly people will choose the former. And that’s what they’re counting on.
Choose the latter and those stupid fucking companies are forced to bend to your will and then you can buy whatever fuckin TV you want.
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We don’t flock to it, they are forced upon us. Finding TVs that support DP is almost impossible.
Nothing is forced on anyone. If people refused to buy them they would be forced to add other ports.
However as someone who considers themselves fairly techy and doesn’t comply with such shitfuckery, I only learned about this last week.
Moving forward I just won’t be buying any TVs at all.
Edit: God fucking forbid any of you actually do anything, or even better, refrain from doing anything, besides bitch and moan on the internet.
This ethical position is such crap in the modern era and if you take it you simply aren’t going to be contributing to this conversation much longer. Unless you go full stallman and get a specific laptop from 15 years ago with very specific hardware that you can flash and install very specific software onto it you have to make peace with the fact that as a modern consumer the landscape has fucked you.
Your choices are to moderate how fucked yoh get in terms of anticonsumer bullshit because the market is stacked against you and the illusion of choice is always there. HDMI is a great example, smartphone platforms outside of android and ios is another. Are their options outside of these walled gardens? Technically but they’re generally much worse and often cost more than a comparable model.
It’s just you can refuse to buy an iphone, you can refuse to buy an android, but you can’t really refuse to buy a smartphone in the modern era. You can refuse to buy a tv but you can’t really refuse to buy a display of some kind. You might think you beat the system if you just get a laptop or computer monitor I guess but not really, monitors increasingly don’t have DP and frankly the whole “vote with your wallet” thing is stupid anyway. Consumers are idiots who will continually vote to fuck themselves. We need regulatory oversight.
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People who connect TVs to the Internet only invite malware. They usually don’t receive big fixes after a few years and tend to spy on all watched content.
Then watch on a plug-in Android TV box. Or take to the high seas.
I’m just saying, if you’re going to stream from an internet service anyway, video/audio on every HTPC streaming app I’ve tried looks bad. Netflix is the best, and it’s still heavily compromised. And (at least on my Sony), the local Android apps tend to have the best system integration for rescaling, HDR, setting the correct refresh rate, per app IQ settings and so on.
But that obviously doesn’t apply if you’re hosting it locally though Kodi, Jellyfin, Plex or whatever.
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Sincerely! As someone who dislikes DisplayPort, moves like that makes me want to use it over HDMI.
Hmm, that’s a new one for me. Why the dislike for DisplayPort?
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This ethical position is such crap in the modern era and if you take it you simply aren’t going to be contributing to this conversation much longer. Unless you go full stallman and get a specific laptop from 15 years ago with very specific hardware that you can flash and install very specific software onto it you have to make peace with the fact that as a modern consumer the landscape has fucked you.
Your choices are to moderate how fucked yoh get in terms of anticonsumer bullshit because the market is stacked against you and the illusion of choice is always there. HDMI is a great example, smartphone platforms outside of android and ios is another. Are their options outside of these walled gardens? Technically but they’re generally much worse and often cost more than a comparable model.
It’s just you can refuse to buy an iphone, you can refuse to buy an android, but you can’t really refuse to buy a smartphone in the modern era. You can refuse to buy a tv but you can’t really refuse to buy a display of some kind. You might think you beat the system if you just get a laptop or computer monitor I guess but not really, monitors increasingly don’t have DP and frankly the whole “vote with your wallet” thing is stupid anyway. Consumers are idiots who will continually vote to fuck themselves. We need regulatory oversight.
the whole “vote with your wallet” thing is stupid anyway
Voting with your wallet is literally the only way things will ever improve.
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the whole “vote with your wallet” thing is stupid anyway
Voting with your wallet is literally the only way things will ever improve.
This explains so much why actual voting numbers are so poor in the US…
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We don’t flock to it, they are forced upon us. Finding TVs that support DP is almost impossible.
Nothing is forced on anyone. If people refused to buy them they would be forced to add other ports.
However as someone who considers themselves fairly techy and doesn’t comply with such shitfuckery, I only learned about this last week.
Moving forward I just won’t be buying any TVs at all.
Edit: God fucking forbid any of you actually do anything, or even better, refrain from doing anything, besides bitch and moan on the internet.
Now if you could just convince the rest of the country to not have a TV in every room of their houses.
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Well, apparently in your opinion, money is the only way to have effective change in the world. Any other attempt to do so will fail miserably.
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the whole “vote with your wallet” thing is stupid anyway
Voting with your wallet is literally the only way things will ever improve.
See how well that has worked over the past 40 years? I mean don’t buy shit you don’t support obviously but don’t expect a personal boycott or even advocating heavily for others to the same to have any kind of impact whatsoever.
It’s because the average consumer is dumb but this isn’t an indictment of the average consumer, necessarily. The average consumer doesn’t want to have to do research on every fucking thing they buy to find out the nefarious bullshit about it. Oh the tv doesn’t support open connection standards, oh my phone is a walled garden built for data collection, oh this smart lightbulb is a privacy nightmare with bullshit tos and also has security issues, etc. They just want to go on amazon or to home depot or whatever and buy shit that looks like it will do what they need for a price point they can afford.
That’s where regulatory oversight comes in: given the above and a consistent lack of consumer ability to enforce standards we need political oversight to pick up the slack. This is a unified arm where a consumer frustration can turn into action much more quickly, even if sales continue because of market fuckery (eg tvs still selling because you can only buy hdmi TVs). But unfortunately we live in a country where the tech industry has performed a near and total regulatory capture and has no fear that regulatory oversight will ever occur, and they’re probably right, at least for now.
So you’re wrong that it’s the only way, and I would argue it’s the most ineffective and inefficient way. It just feels like it’s the only way because of our failed state political situation where even a regulatory concern that should be a slam dunk like right to repair often either fails or only passes in a greatly neutered state because the local politicians thought Microsoft and Apple made some great points about preventing local jobs so that tech billionaires could continue to make even more money
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TBH you should be playing DRM content though smart TV/TV box apps anyway. Desktop Windows playback is more technically limited (for instance, no auto resolution/refresh rate switching) and aside from that you usually get a worse bitrate stream on a stuttery player.
I don’t even know about DRM playback on Linux.
You should literally never use the apps built in to your TV. Unless you just really like letting the TV manufacturer know exactly what you are watching and when.
On Linux you check the box in Firefox that says Allow DRM Content and then yes, as far as I know, you need to be using laptop or a HDMI display.
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the whole “vote with your wallet” thing is stupid anyway
Voting with your wallet is literally the only way things will ever improve.
The only way? Literally?
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See how well that has worked over the past 40 years? I mean don’t buy shit you don’t support obviously but don’t expect a personal boycott or even advocating heavily for others to the same to have any kind of impact whatsoever.
It’s because the average consumer is dumb but this isn’t an indictment of the average consumer, necessarily. The average consumer doesn’t want to have to do research on every fucking thing they buy to find out the nefarious bullshit about it. Oh the tv doesn’t support open connection standards, oh my phone is a walled garden built for data collection, oh this smart lightbulb is a privacy nightmare with bullshit tos and also has security issues, etc. They just want to go on amazon or to home depot or whatever and buy shit that looks like it will do what they need for a price point they can afford.
That’s where regulatory oversight comes in: given the above and a consistent lack of consumer ability to enforce standards we need political oversight to pick up the slack. This is a unified arm where a consumer frustration can turn into action much more quickly, even if sales continue because of market fuckery (eg tvs still selling because you can only buy hdmi TVs). But unfortunately we live in a country where the tech industry has performed a near and total regulatory capture and has no fear that regulatory oversight will ever occur, and they’re probably right, at least for now.
So you’re wrong that it’s the only way, and I would argue it’s the most ineffective and inefficient way. It just feels like it’s the only way because of our failed state political situation where even a regulatory concern that should be a slam dunk like right to repair often either fails or only passes in a greatly neutered state because the local politicians thought Microsoft and Apple made some great points about preventing local jobs so that tech billionaires could continue to make even more money
See how well that has worked over the past 40 years?
…extremely well? Can you provide an example of the contrary?
don’t expect a personal boycott or even advocating heavily for others to the same to have any kind of impact whatsoever.
…of course a single person boycotting a product does nothing. People educating themselves about the products they buy and making conscious decisions to buy consumer-friendly products when buying shit (especially expensive shit) does.
They just want to go on amazon or to home depot or whatever and buy shit that looks like it will do what they need for a price point they can afford.
Plenty of people know and just don’t care. I know because I have these types of conversations all the time.
That’s where regulatory oversight comes in
See how well that has worked over the past 2000 years?
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I’m not sure where I got this idea, but I thought it was because Display Port doesn’t carry audio, and a single-cable solution was more appealing.
But apparently Display Port also supports audio, just none of my devices seem to recognize it…?
Apparently the only advantage of HDMI is ARC (Audio Return Channel), allowing devices to send audio back to the video source, which might be useful in some home theater setups.
Ohh TIL, thanks! I could count the times I needed the TV to send audio back to the home theater, like if I want to watch open channels or something.
I think we could live without it, just plug an audio cable or something, fuck hdmi.
