Skip to content
0
  • Home
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
  • Home
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (Sketchy)
  • No Skin
Collapse

Wandering Adventure Party

  1. Home
  2. PC Gaming
  3. Handheld PC makers are slowly losing touch with Valve's successful Steam Deck template of affordability, and that's very concerning

Handheld PC makers are slowly losing touch with Valve's successful Steam Deck template of affordability, and that's very concerning

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved PC Gaming
pcgaming
87 Posts 36 Posters 3 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • N Natanael

    No, Wine (and Proton) is a compatibility layer (API translation, etc). Containers is an isolation method which hides the details of the OS from the software and gives it a standardized environment.

    Link Preview Image
    GitHub - ValveSoftware/steam-runtime: A runtime environment for Steam applications

    A runtime environment for Steam applications. Contribute to ValveSoftware/steam-runtime development by creating an account on GitHub.

    favicon

    GitHub (github.com)

    No matter what Linux distribution you run Steam on, the only thing you need to do is to get the container system up and running. Once that runs, all software that runs in these containers will run on that device.

    appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
    appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
    appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    wrote last edited by appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    #68

    So something akin to flatpak/snap?
    Isnt that the purpose and source of controversy vs distributing them the usual way of repositories?

    Edit: Had some time to read the README.
    Very interesting. But that sounds, like a vendor lock-in. Essentially devs are forced to use the Steam SDK to make it executable on Linux or face the issue of checking the compatibility of every distro, no?

    P N 2 Replies Last reply
    0
    • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
      This post did not contain any content.
      B This user is from outside of this forum
      B This user is from outside of this forum
      bosht@lemmy.world
      wrote last edited by
      #69

      That title is cringe as fuck. There’s nothing concerning about it at all. Market saw Steam Deck’s success so they dove in. Whether they survive is dependent on if they provide good price points or justification for a higher price. Super simple.

      1 Reply Last reply
      10
      • NoxyN Noxy

        they’re also forgetting the touchpads. the touchpads are so fucking good, and they add so much usability and flexibility. so much, I think, that no amount of superior performance, resoution, or battery life can make up for the lack of them.

        P This user is from outside of this forum
        P This user is from outside of this forum
        prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        wrote last edited by prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        #70

        Absolutely. They make mouse-based games playable with a controller. Gyro is nice too.

        NoxyN 1 Reply Last reply
        2
        • appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com

          When talking about a container environment you are talking about WINE, arent you?

          But if we are talking about native developed games, how would that look?
          That sounds to me like 1st priority-development will be continued using Windows as a base + DirectX and reliance that WINE will somewhat manage that.
          How would native Linux look for game devs in terms of platform targeting?

          P This user is from outside of this forum
          P This user is from outside of this forum
          prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          wrote last edited by prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          #71

          You might want to catch up on a decade or so of Linux gaming progress before wading into a conversation about it with controversial takes…

          appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com

            So something akin to flatpak/snap?
            Isnt that the purpose and source of controversy vs distributing them the usual way of repositories?

            Edit: Had some time to read the README.
            Very interesting. But that sounds, like a vendor lock-in. Essentially devs are forced to use the Steam SDK to make it executable on Linux or face the issue of checking the compatibility of every distro, no?

            P This user is from outside of this forum
            P This user is from outside of this forum
            prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            wrote last edited by
            #72

            You don’t need to use Steam to run games though…?

            appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • NoxyN Noxy

              they’re also forgetting the touchpads. the touchpads are so fucking good, and they add so much usability and flexibility. so much, I think, that no amount of superior performance, resoution, or battery life can make up for the lack of them.

              J This user is from outside of this forum
              J This user is from outside of this forum
              jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
              wrote last edited by jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
              #73

              This is why I bought a deck oled even with the other more powerful handhelds already out.

              NoxyN 1 Reply Last reply
              3
              • P prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                You might want to catch up on a decade or so of Linux gaming progress before wading into a conversation about it with controversial takes…

                appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                wrote last edited by
                #74

                Why?
                A discussion can’t happen.
                And you don’t really expect everyone to be knowledgeable about every 500 aspects of every OS that can execute a program, do you?

                If I was invited to a discussion round, I will obviously get myself up to date on the essentials.
                But I already do sysadmin stuff at work, configuring multiple systems, administrating my home stuff the best I can.
                I really don’t have the mental energy to keep up with an OS I currently only use as a server OS and as a (basically) gaming appliance.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • P prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                  You don’t need to use Steam to run games though…?

                  appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                  appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                  appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  wrote last edited by
                  #75

                  So what if Steam stops development of the SDK or turns evil?
                  What other choices do devs have if they want to keep their systems compatible with all distros?
                  It looks to me as if you can either rely on proton/WINE or be stuck with the SDK if you run native.

                  P 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • zecg@lemmy.worldZ zecg@lemmy.world

                    Other manufacturers do not have that luxury.

                    They can find some margin in using a rolling Arch distro instead of paying for Windows, Gabe helpfully provided the template that you can reuse.

                    M This user is from outside of this forum
                    M This user is from outside of this forum
                    molag_baller@lemmynsfw.com
                    wrote last edited by
                    #76

                    That still does not magically give them a digital storefront that the consumer will use to purchase a ton of software that gives then a 30% cut.

                    Yes, technically you can purchase and use a Deck without purchasing a single game on Steam. But how likely is that? Valve has done the math and made their projections and concluded that selling the Deck roughly at cost (my assumption based on their vague statements and industry comparisons) will increase software sales in Steam. And increase profits more than if they had priced the Deck at a highrt margin selling g desert units and driving less software sales.

                    Lenovo and ASUS and these other manufacturers don’t have that. An operating system change will not fix issues with the business model and ecosystem.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • K kyrgizion@lemmy.world

                      Sell 15K units at 900 a pop, or sell 150K units at 500 a pop…

                      We don’t know the margins on these things but I’d think that higher volume sales would be better. But what do I know.

                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                      molag_baller@lemmynsfw.com
                      wrote last edited by
                      #77

                      Margins could be 0 or even negative.

                      Sony for example: every single PlayStation has always been released at a price below cost. This allows them to create an ecosystem with a very large user base buying software, where even in 3rd party titles they at least bring in license fees.

                      Sony then invests those profits into scaling, improving, and redesigning the PlayStation to reduce costs, which is why the do slim models.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                        This post did not contain any content.
                        E This user is from outside of this forum
                        E This user is from outside of this forum
                        evil_shrubbery@lemmy.zip
                        wrote last edited by
                        #78

                        It’s called enshitification, we knew it was coming.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        4
                        • appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                          So something akin to flatpak/snap?
                          Isnt that the purpose and source of controversy vs distributing them the usual way of repositories?

                          Edit: Had some time to read the README.
                          Very interesting. But that sounds, like a vendor lock-in. Essentially devs are forced to use the Steam SDK to make it executable on Linux or face the issue of checking the compatibility of every distro, no?

                          N This user is from outside of this forum
                          N This user is from outside of this forum
                          Natanael
                          wrote last edited by
                          #79

                          No, the container environment uses default open source libraries. You don’t add any Steam dependencies to make software run in that environment. You can run it without Steam too. It’s just that Valve are the ones maintaining and updating this particular packaging of containers. When Valve releases new versions of their container (including updated default system libraries), you have to test compatibility with it or stick to using an older one. Similar to how Windows software versions would work best with different Proton versions.

                          You can use the Steam SDK when using it, and you can also choose not to.

                          Flatpack is a separate thing, which only handles Linux software within the regular desktop environment (a different method for packing software dependencies, managing system permissions, etc). The main difference is that Flatpack software can integrate with the regular Linux desktop environment, but the container based solution is fully separate from it (runs in gaming mode).

                          appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                            So what if Steam stops development of the SDK or turns evil?
                            What other choices do devs have if they want to keep their systems compatible with all distros?
                            It looks to me as if you can either rely on proton/WINE or be stuck with the SDK if you run native.

                            P This user is from outside of this forum
                            P This user is from outside of this forum
                            prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                            wrote last edited by
                            #80

                            Proton often works better than native Linux versions of the same game.

                            Just use Proton. Seriously, if you haven’t gamed on Linux in a long time, it’s mind blowing how well it works.

                            appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • J jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works

                              This is why I bought a deck oled even with the other more powerful handhelds already out.

                              NoxyN This user is from outside of this forum
                              NoxyN This user is from outside of this forum
                              Noxy
                              wrote last edited by
                              #81

                              I have the OLED too and it’s such an exceptional device. Works very well as a media PC too, especially with KDE Connect for controlling remotely from a smartphone

                              J 1 Reply Last reply
                              1
                              • P prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                                Absolutely. They make mouse-based games playable with a controller. Gyro is nice too.

                                NoxyN This user is from outside of this forum
                                NoxyN This user is from outside of this forum
                                Noxy
                                wrote last edited by
                                #82

                                Not just playable but pleasant! Thing is perfect for Rimworld especially

                                P 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • NoxyN Noxy

                                  Not just playable but pleasant! Thing is perfect for Rimworld especially

                                  P This user is from outside of this forum
                                  P This user is from outside of this forum
                                  prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #83

                                  I haven’t played RimWorld on Deck yet… Sounds like a good way to lose entire days.

                                  NoxyN 1 Reply Last reply
                                  2
                                  • NoxyN Noxy

                                    I have the OLED too and it’s such an exceptional device. Works very well as a media PC too, especially with KDE Connect for controlling remotely from a smartphone

                                    J This user is from outside of this forum
                                    J This user is from outside of this forum
                                    jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #84

                                    It’s so nice fr, it helps I had sorta “prepared” by learning Bazzite on my spare laptop prior, so got very familiar with the immutable aspects and flatpaks/appimages

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    1
                                    • P prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                                      Proton often works better than native Linux versions of the same game.

                                      Just use Proton. Seriously, if you haven’t gamed on Linux in a long time, it’s mind blowing how well it works.

                                      appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                                      appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                                      appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #85

                                      Like I mentioned: I am gaming quite a bit (lately more on it than on my regular PC) on my SteamDeck.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • N Natanael

                                        No, the container environment uses default open source libraries. You don’t add any Steam dependencies to make software run in that environment. You can run it without Steam too. It’s just that Valve are the ones maintaining and updating this particular packaging of containers. When Valve releases new versions of their container (including updated default system libraries), you have to test compatibility with it or stick to using an older one. Similar to how Windows software versions would work best with different Proton versions.

                                        You can use the Steam SDK when using it, and you can also choose not to.

                                        Flatpack is a separate thing, which only handles Linux software within the regular desktop environment (a different method for packing software dependencies, managing system permissions, etc). The main difference is that Flatpack software can integrate with the regular Linux desktop environment, but the container based solution is fully separate from it (runs in gaming mode).

                                        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #86

                                        Sounds interesting and eases my concern about the dependency on large corporations.

                                        PS: What I meant by comparing Flatpack with the packaging from the SteamSDK is the general idea behind it (e.g. containerizing and isolating from the OS).

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • P prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                                          I haven’t played RimWorld on Deck yet… Sounds like a good way to lose entire days.

                                          NoxyN This user is from outside of this forum
                                          NoxyN This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Noxy
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #87

                                          Sure is!

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0

                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          Powered by NodeBB Contributors
                                          • First post
                                            Last post