Handheld PC makers are slowly losing touch with Valve's successful Steam Deck template of affordability, and that's very concerning
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Who supports that?
At least Windows is only one plattform in comparison to the bazillion linux-distros.Same issue devs face with consoles vs PCs.
Steam on Linux defaults to providing a container based standard Linux environment which is independent of the underlying OS, providing access to all the expected software libraries and OS calls that games need to run.
This is integrated into SteamOS. It’s also available via Steam on any other Linux distro. (And if you wanted to you could cut that part out and run it without Steam.)
When running Windows games it even runs Proton within this container environment.
That gives you a single very predictable and version controlled software environment.
Meanwhile Windows randomly deprecates stuff that somebody might have invested tons of development effort into (silverlight, mixed reality, etc)
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valve can optimize their games for a steam deck. The steam deck isnt theirs?
There’s a lot of similarities and differences - the Steam Deck’s gaming mode is able to run a very barebones OS, similar to the very basic OS that the Nintendo Switch runs, with the game running in comparable sandboxes with stable software interfaces.
But Nintendo worked with Nvidia specifically to develop a variant of their hardware dedicated for gaming, while Valve essentially put a Linux laptop in a handheld console format (IIRC they did get help from AMD, but it wasn’t the same kind of deep collaboration), which notably may have different components between different hardware revisions.
When you try to maximize game performance that makes a difference, because on the Switch you can reliably push the hardware to the limits and expect it to keep working and on a Deck you have to test the hardware before pushing it. And if you find a trick that depends on architectural quirks you have to special-case it to not break on other hardware. There’s no guarantee that rarely used hardware features (both physical, and CPU/GPU instructions, etc) will stick around on a future revision of a Deck, while Nintendo guarantees forward compatibility (with help from Nvidia).
Nintendo even worked with Nvidia to emulate the Switch 1 GPU when running games for the first Switch on a Switch 2! They’re even going so far that they’re patching the emulation layer on a per-game basis to fix games where the default emulation method fails! And the ability to do this depends on knowing the exact properties of the hardware revisions of both the original and new GPU! (there’s architectural differences in the GPU that would break some games unless it was emulated)
Now Lenovo also has devices running SteamOS on different hardware, so games that runs on both either needs special cased optimizations for both, or only generic optimizations, or they simply have to decide to support one specific model better than others (which could end up with a game looking worse on better hardware because the dev didn’t try as hard with that hardware)
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Well then: Clear it up.
I run headless debian VMs at home on a proxmox HV and another NUC with Debian that does Docker tasks.
My steckdeck runs the stock OS and am not scared to tinker within it.Never assumed to be a pro and would consider an amateur at best that isnt scared to tinker.
It’s just that I prefer convenience most of the time.So then. These are my cards. Explain what I learned wrong about the fractured linux ecosystem.
So far I know that Arch, Debian and RHEL the biggest distro families are.Edit: Very helpful. Downvoting instead of telling me where I am wrong.
(Yes my comment was provocative but absolutelynotavelociraptor@sh.itjust.works should just tell where I am wrong if they are so sure of themselve).The other answer from Natanael tells you that now
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Steam Deck hits a sweet spot. You can make it more powerful, but it’ll cost significantly more. You can make it cheaper, but you’ll cut out too many games people want to play.
Also, anything like this with a resolution higher than 720p is wasting pixels and GPU power, IMO.
- you couldn’t make it more powerful, it had the best of the best.
- my eyes work, and I still I don’t think clearer text and UI is a waste
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The other answer from Natanael tells you that now
Noticed and will be reading now.
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Steam on Linux defaults to providing a container based standard Linux environment which is independent of the underlying OS, providing access to all the expected software libraries and OS calls that games need to run.
This is integrated into SteamOS. It’s also available via Steam on any other Linux distro. (And if you wanted to you could cut that part out and run it without Steam.)
When running Windows games it even runs Proton within this container environment.
That gives you a single very predictable and version controlled software environment.
Meanwhile Windows randomly deprecates stuff that somebody might have invested tons of development effort into (silverlight, mixed reality, etc)
When talking about a container environment you are talking about WINE, arent you?
But if we are talking about native developed games, how would that look?
That sounds to me like 1st priority-development will be continued using Windows as a base + DirectX and reliance that WINE will somewhat manage that.
How would native Linux look for game devs in terms of platform targeting? -
- you couldn’t make it more powerful, it had the best of the best.
- my eyes work, and I still I don’t think clearer text and UI is a waste
There are several competitors that are more powerful, like the ROG Ally. They also need a bigger battery to support it, or they have worse battery life. And they’re more expensive.
Clear text and UI is an issue because games don’t scale their shit properly.
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valve can optimize their games for a steam deck. The steam deck isnt theirs?
When a games developer make a game for Switch Nintendo has a say in how it must perform before you’re allowed to release it. Valve have no such requirements on games put on Steam - it’s up to the developers whether to require a lot of performance or not. Thus, while Valve sells the Steam Deck that doesn’t mean games on Steam necessarily run well on it.
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When a games developer make a game for Switch Nintendo has a say in how it must perform before you’re allowed to release it. Valve have no such requirements on games put on Steam - it’s up to the developers whether to require a lot of performance or not. Thus, while Valve sells the Steam Deck that doesn’t mean games on Steam necessarily run well on it.
Steam Deck can’t ever have that luxury.
Still not sure why this is the case. Have yet to hear any clear argument why it will never happen for Valve.
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When talking about a container environment you are talking about WINE, arent you?
But if we are talking about native developed games, how would that look?
That sounds to me like 1st priority-development will be continued using Windows as a base + DirectX and reliance that WINE will somewhat manage that.
How would native Linux look for game devs in terms of platform targeting?No, Wine (and Proton) is a compatibility layer (API translation, etc). Containers is an isolation method which hides the details of the OS from the software and gives it a standardized environment.
GitHub - ValveSoftware/steam-runtime: A runtime environment for Steam applications
A runtime environment for Steam applications. Contribute to ValveSoftware/steam-runtime development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
No matter what Linux distribution you run Steam on, the only thing you need to do is to get the container system up and running. Once that runs, all software that runs in these containers will run on that device.
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I just want something that I can play up to say Playstation 3 or Xbox 360 level emulation
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- you couldn’t make it more powerful, it had the best of the best.
- my eyes work, and I still I don’t think clearer text and UI is a waste
Higher resolution will mean smaller text by default.
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“slowly”
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I just want something that I can play up to say Playstation 3 or Xbox 360 level emulation
I dunno what this article is on about, you can find thousands of those from the likes of Anbernic, Powkiddy, Miyoo, Retroid, etc.
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There are several competitors that are more powerful, like the ROG Ally. They also need a bigger battery to support it, or they have worse battery life. And they’re more expensive.
Clear text and UI is an issue because games don’t scale their shit properly.
Those came after, Valve hasn’t a time machine (as far as I know)
You’re right about games not scaling shit properly, but that’s 99% of the time in gen 8 (console-first) games, where those games where designed solely for big screens with HD+ resolutions. Modern games have already started figuring out scaling for different resolutions and aspect ratios
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they’re also forgetting the touchpads. the touchpads are so fucking good, and they add so much usability and flexibility. so much, I think, that no amount of superior performance, resoution, or battery life can make up for the lack of them.
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No, Wine (and Proton) is a compatibility layer (API translation, etc). Containers is an isolation method which hides the details of the OS from the software and gives it a standardized environment.
GitHub - ValveSoftware/steam-runtime: A runtime environment for Steam applications
A runtime environment for Steam applications. Contribute to ValveSoftware/steam-runtime development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
No matter what Linux distribution you run Steam on, the only thing you need to do is to get the container system up and running. Once that runs, all software that runs in these containers will run on that device.
So something akin to flatpak/snap?
Isnt that the purpose and source of controversy vs distributing them the usual way of repositories?Edit: Had some time to read the README.
Very interesting. But that sounds, like a vendor lock-in. Essentially devs are forced to use the Steam SDK to make it executable on Linux or face the issue of checking the compatibility of every distro, no? -
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That title is cringe as fuck. There’s nothing concerning about it at all. Market saw Steam Deck’s success so they dove in. Whether they survive is dependent on if they provide good price points or justification for a higher price. Super simple.
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they’re also forgetting the touchpads. the touchpads are so fucking good, and they add so much usability and flexibility. so much, I think, that no amount of superior performance, resoution, or battery life can make up for the lack of them.
Absolutely. They make mouse-based games playable with a controller. Gyro is nice too.
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When talking about a container environment you are talking about WINE, arent you?
But if we are talking about native developed games, how would that look?
That sounds to me like 1st priority-development will be continued using Windows as a base + DirectX and reliance that WINE will somewhat manage that.
How would native Linux look for game devs in terms of platform targeting?You might want to catch up on a decade or so of Linux gaming progress before wading into a conversation about it with controversial takes…