The SAVE act targets people who've changed their name *for any reason*.
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@the_wub @alice @amydiehl People with new identities courtesy of witness protection get birth certificates for their new names.
Very few countries allow asylum-seekers to vote in national elections at all, regardless of how well-documented they are. If one becomes a US citizen, they get a certificate of naturalization, which is explicitly listed as acceptable proof of citizenship in the bill.
This proposed law is awful, but those two specific concerns aren’t affected either way.
@bob_zim @alice @amydiehl I have had a collection of experiences, related to the different way that the UK and most other European countries treat identity.
Some countries base your permission to stay on your birth certificate and others on the passport you present.
In my case the names on the two are not the same.
The UK demands that if you have two passports then the names on both must be identical.
But UK passports do not support accented characters found in other European alphabets.
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The SAVE act targets people who've changed their name *for any reason*. Ya know who's done that?
- Married women
- Trans & nonbinary folx
- ImmigrantsYou know which US citizens that leaves?
Mostly white men.
The SAVE act isn't trying to save anything other than patriarchy and fascism.
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The SAVE act targets people who've changed their name *for any reason*. Ya know who's done that?
- Married women
- Trans & nonbinary folx
- ImmigrantsYou know which US citizens that leaves?
Mostly white men.
The SAVE act isn't trying to save anything other than patriarchy and fascism.
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@bob_zim @alice @amydiehl As regards asylum seekers, my thought was if they do get granted permission to stay, then how will the new laws affect them.
Not just when they are newly arrived but also should the seek US citizenship at a later date.
If you arrive without any papers then how can you prove an identity that matches your birth certificate and hence claim your right to vote as a US citizen.
@the_wub @alice @amydiehl > If you arrive without any papers then how can you prove an identity that matches your birth certificate and hence claim your right to vote as a US citizen.
That’s already a problem today, regardless of this proposed law. It sucks because, yes, the people most in need of asylum protections are often the least able to produce documentation. The barrier is the naturalization process, though, and this proposed law doesn’t affect that.
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@bob_zim @alice @amydiehl I have had a collection of experiences, related to the different way that the UK and most other European countries treat identity.
Some countries base your permission to stay on your birth certificate and others on the passport you present.
In my case the names on the two are not the same.
The UK demands that if you have two passports then the names on both must be identical.
But UK passports do not support accented characters found in other European alphabets.
@the_wub @alice @amydiehl Yeah, the EU+UK situation is separately awful, since there’s no super-state authority you can directly be a citizen of (i.e, you can’t be a citizen of the EU directly, only of a state within it). Instead, there’s a mess of individual states all with their own individual idiosyncrasies. Most allow non-resident citizens to vote. Some allow non-citizen residents to vote. Ridiculous, inconsistent documentation standards like the passport situation you mentioned. All based on imaginary lines on the ground.
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@the_wub @alice @amydiehl Yeah, the EU+UK situation is separately awful, since there’s no super-state authority you can directly be a citizen of (i.e, you can’t be a citizen of the EU directly, only of a state within it). Instead, there’s a mess of individual states all with their own individual idiosyncrasies. Most allow non-resident citizens to vote. Some allow non-citizen residents to vote. Ridiculous, inconsistent documentation standards like the passport situation you mentioned. All based on imaginary lines on the ground.
@bob_zim @alice @amydiehl Before Brexit happened if there had been an "EU passport" I would have applied for it immediately.
Identity is a pain in the neck. In the UK you can choose the name that appears on your passport.
In the Netherlands and Norway people are all registered in the People Registers. So you get the name that you are officially registered with when you apply for a passport.
The UK has a perculiar way of dealing with legal identity and has no central register for all people.
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@bob_zim @alice @amydiehl Before Brexit happened if there had been an "EU passport" I would have applied for it immediately.
Identity is a pain in the neck. In the UK you can choose the name that appears on your passport.
In the Netherlands and Norway people are all registered in the People Registers. So you get the name that you are officially registered with when you apply for a passport.
The UK has a perculiar way of dealing with legal identity and has no central register for all people.
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@the_wub @alice @amydiehl Births are registered at the local level (county/parrish, below US state), but they confer citizenship at the federal level. The US federal government is the entity which issues passports and social security numbers (basically our national ID number for financial purposes). Driver licenses and most other non-passport IDs are managed by the US states. Depending on who is asking for identity and why, we may need a birth/naturalization certificate, passport, social security number, driver license/state ID number, or a paper utility bill (sometimes needed to prove residency for state and local elections).
US states run their own elections, so rules for voting are all over the place (which is why the USA doesn’t meet the minimum standards for election monitoring by the Carter Center).
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The SAVE act targets people who've changed their name *for any reason*. Ya know who's done that?
- Married women
- Trans & nonbinary folx
- ImmigrantsYou know which US citizens that leaves?
Mostly white men.
The SAVE act isn't trying to save anything other than patriarchy and fascism.
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@yPhil there's already a law against being a criminal, that's what made them a criminal. There are also already laws against election tampering and fraud.
Two states let felons vote while in prison.
If they've "paid their dues", then most places (eventually) let them vote again anyway.
Blocking upwards of a third of the population from voting because it might stop a handful of "criminals" is fucking ridiculous. If we wanted to do *that* and have fewer false-positives, we could just block straight men from voting—they make up ~93% of inmates¹—and that's with the fact that queer folx have arrest rates ~2.3× higher than straight people² (because the system is fucking busted).
Also, your argument is bullshit.
¹ https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/beyondthecount.html
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@alice @amydiehl @spacehobo the idea that getting married would edit your birth certificate is so fucking weird
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@sleepytako @amydiehl @alice My wife and I both kept our names when we married (in academics it's a pita to prove authorship of something after a name change). We get confused looks regularly when people realize we have different last names. Most people are still living in the old world.
It also confuses people that our son has her last name. We did that mostly because her last name is far more interesting/unique than mine.@Jumpmed when I disowned my dad, I changed my last name to my mom's (she had kept hers, and her name was way cooler anyway).
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@CordiallyChloe @alice @amydiehl yikes
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@ruivo I'm a US citizen, as were my parents, and their parents, going back about as long as there's been a US.
I didn't take my spouse's name when I got married, but my birth certificate doesn't match my state ID or passport. I legally changed my name shortly after I became an adult, so I could get rid of my dad's last name (and my first name, because it was dumb).
At the time, I didn't have enough money to pay to update it everywhere, so I just never did.
I have a valid state ID and passport (well, my state ID has a nonbinary gender marker on it, so who knows if it'll be honored outside of Washington state
️ these days).By the wording of the SAVE act, I don't think I'd be eligible to vote (for the first time since I turned 18).
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@FaithinBones they should already do that
But more importantly, we should call out this legislation for what it is—an attempt to lock out non-MAGA voters and rig an election.
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@FaithinBones they should already do that
But more importantly, we should call out this legislation for what it is—an attempt to lock out non-MAGA voters and rig an election.
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@ruivo I'm a US citizen, as were my parents, and their parents, going back about as long as there's been a US.
I didn't take my spouse's name when I got married, but my birth certificate doesn't match my state ID or passport. I legally changed my name shortly after I became an adult, so I could get rid of my dad's last name (and my first name, because it was dumb).
At the time, I didn't have enough money to pay to update it everywhere, so I just never did.
I have a valid state ID and passport (well, my state ID has a nonbinary gender marker on it, so who knows if it'll be honored outside of Washington state
️ these days).By the wording of the SAVE act, I don't think I'd be eligible to vote (for the first time since I turned 18).
@amydiehl @alice I'm not defending it. Any kind of extra documentation asked will raise barriers. Even if you carry paperwork proving change it'll do exactly what they want: make it more difficult to vote for specific demographics. People forgetting to bring, not knowing, losing it, expired and so on. Just pointing out that first generation citizens (which I assume 'immigrants' meant there) aren't likely (again, not everyone) to be impacted as much.
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@amydiehl @alice I'm not defending it. Any kind of extra documentation asked will raise barriers. Even if you carry paperwork proving change it'll do exactly what they want: make it more difficult to vote for specific demographics. People forgetting to bring, not knowing, losing it, expired and so on. Just pointing out that first generation citizens (which I assume 'immigrants' meant there) aren't likely (again, not everyone) to be impacted as much.
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@the_wub @alice @amydiehl Births are registered at the local level (county/parrish, below US state), but they confer citizenship at the federal level. The US federal government is the entity which issues passports and social security numbers (basically our national ID number for financial purposes). Driver licenses and most other non-passport IDs are managed by the US states. Depending on who is asking for identity and why, we may need a birth/naturalization certificate, passport, social security number, driver license/state ID number, or a paper utility bill (sometimes needed to prove residency for state and local elections).
US states run their own elections, so rules for voting are all over the place (which is why the USA doesn’t meet the minimum standards for election monitoring by the Carter Center).
@bob_zim @alice @amydiehl "SAVE Act would require birth cert or passport that matches voters legal name. "
So where and how is a person's "legal name" recorded?
In the UK there is the concept of "known as" which means that you can end up being called something other than is on your passport.
You can change the name on your passport without changing your legal name by deed poll to match it.
Not advisable as I found out trying to help a relative but I believe even now it is still possible.
