Dude. Stores have age restrictions. If they lie and steal their parents card… thats a parental issue.

I feel like I used to know but I’m getting kinda sleepy and it’s sorta hard to breathe

Sorry for the double reply.

In the short-ish term, I think a good way to address this would be if governments across the globe had laws like “a service provider cannot refuse to provide services to a platform based on the nature of the lawful content within that platform”.

Odds are Visa/MC/PP wouldn’t even try to fight against such a law - they don’t really mind servicing itch.io, from their PoV it would be yet another customer; the problem is pressure exerted by those Protestant nutjobs in Australia, but once a law is present they can’t exert that pressure.

You really can’t be honest at all about the MASSIVE difference in access, can you?

Try and take your hand out of your pants before you reply again.

And “how” did they pressure the payment processors? Pressure on central deciders or what? Spicy data on them?

And couldn’t they influence elections that way?

Personally i have no interest in such content. I simple do not wish to have corpations making decisions for us peasants without going throigh the proper democratic process.

And there isnt much difference, in fact nothing stops people from buying alcohol online.

Literally not one honest bone exists in your body, huh?

How am I being dishonest? Please explain.

This law sounds good in theory, but there’s a lot of lawful content that is really undesirable (scams, spam, deepfakes, hate speech, etc.) and platforms need to be able to deal with that. The law isn’t fast or flexible enough to keep up, and every country has different (or laughable) definitions of some of these things.

The YouTube community guidelines are a pretty good overview of whatever shady shit people are trying to pull these days: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9288567?hl=en

but there’s a lot of lawful content that is really undesirable (scams, spam, deepfakes, hate speech, etc.)

• scam - AFAIK already illegal in most of the world.
• spam - should be illegal, at least in the most egregious forms.
• deepfakes - it depends a lot on what is being done with the deepfake in question; plenty of them (like non-consensual sexualisation of someone) are either illegal or should be.
• hate speech - it targets the dignity, well-being and often the lives of marginalised groups. Should be illegal.

Are you noticing the pattern? Those are things that should be handled by a government in defence of the public interest of everyone, not by a platform in defence of private interest of its shareholders. Even if a population has weak control over its government, it’s more than it has over a corporation.

The law isn’t fast or flexible enough to keep up and every country has different (or laughable) definitions of some of these things.

This problem is not a good reason to create an even bigger problem. Like the one we’re seeing - private interest dictating what should be allowed or not in the public sphere.

And, seriously, if the problem was just porn who would give a fuck. (Okay, some people would, some wouldn’t.) The problem is that those corporations will happily target any group, any interest, any person, as soon as they deem profitable; because they have the power to do so, so porn is in this context only the canary of the mine. And this power needs to be curtailed.

But let’s say, for the sake of argument, that implementing such a wide law would be unviable. Well, focus on financial service providers then - banks, payment processors, and the likes. Problem solved.

I don’t disagree with you, but you’ve put some thought into this so maybe you can help us understand your logic and rationale more.

as soon as they deem profitable

What’s profitable about losing sales of adult games?

Also, what leverage do these groups have over banks and payment processors? If you have leverage over Visa and MasterCard, some of the most profitable companies in the world, I could imagine doing way more nefarious things than this. I just don’t get it. Some random group in Australia has leverage over Visa and MasterCard - American companies - is that what we’re saying here?

Those are things that should be handled by a government in defence of the public interest of everyone

I think you might have too much faith in government. Facebook and YouTube shouldn’t be hyper-polarizing brainwashing machines either, but here we are 20 years later and governments have done jack shit to address that. If anything, we’re going the wrong direction - Governments are seeing that and the TikTok model as tools they can have at their disposal to suppress dissent. But ironically, I think YouTube and many other platforms quietly accept that if we want to live in a somewhat harmonious society, we can’t leave it to the government to make all the rules. (eg. YouTube banning vaccine misinformation and disinformation during a public health emergency.)

On a tangent here, maybe the only potential upside from this situation with Steam is that horrifically misogynistic waifu simulators aren’t going to be 1 click away from the new Call of Duty. Seriously, Steam is just full of super gross anime shit that kids shouldn’t see, but the main audience of the platform is kids. The way Steam puts that content beside everything else is really gross and they really should get called out for that.

These are the people whose business depends on the USD existing so maybe but it’d be stupid

What’s profitable about losing sales of adult games?

From Visa/MC’s PoV the situation looks like this:

1. force itch.io - lose sales associated with that content
2. leave itch.io alone - lose sales associated with anyone who takes Collective Shout’s noise seriously, while Collective Shout starts smearing shit on Visa/MC by saying “they finance rape!”

Visa/MC likely determined #2 to be more than #1. In other words it’s more profitable to do #1 instead.

Also, what leverage do these groups have over banks and payment processors? […] I just don’t get it. Some random group in Australia has leverage over Visa and MasterCard - American companies - is that what we’re saying here?

It’s mostly their ability to cause brand damage (reasons people avoid your brand because they see it negatively - like #2).

Visa and MC know that, when it comes to sex, people become really irrational. They take insane troll logic seriously, even if they wouldn’t otherwise; and those religious groups like Collective Shout are really good at weaponising that irrationality. The way those alt right groups work is that you don’t even need to know about the group to repeat their talking points, and spread support to those talking points.

I think you might have too much faith in government.

I don’t. I’m picking the lesser of two evils here: a government is less worse than those megacorporations.

But ironically, I think YouTube and many other platforms quietly accept that if we want to live in a somewhat harmonious society, we can’t leave it to the government to make all the rules. (eg. YouTube banning vaccine misinformation and disinformation during a public health emergency.)

They didn’t ban vaccine misinformation “because it’s misinformation” or “because society would be better without it” (even if both things are true). Truth and morality doesn’t matter for those platforms; what matters is brand damage.

Go listen to the first season of the Hot Money podcast, it’ll explain it in much better detail than I’ll remember. Essentially VISA and MasterCard don’t like the reputational damage of being associated with certain types of porn. It’s not a hill they’re willing to die on. If you want your app to accept online payment you’ve got to be in line with what they find acceptable.

I find that unacceptable.

For what it’s worth I don’t think they particularly want the role either but until someone destroys the duopoly they have it’s the way it’s going to be.

I guess I’ll go to the F95zone instead.

Super insightful, thanks. Didn’t think about any of that.

I don’t like the precedent that Collective Shout set, but this is a VERY positive side effect. Love to see it.