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  3. Epic fails to compete with Steam because “EGS is a shop, Steam is a community”, says Witchfire lead, as Epic has “nothing to do but to buy”

Epic fails to compete with Steam because “EGS is a shop, Steam is a community”, says Witchfire lead, as Epic has “nothing to do but to buy”

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  • Q quetzalcutlass@lemmy.world

    Meanwhile if you’re part of Steam’s partner program you know that Valve are constantly improving things on the backend for devs and publishers. Just about the only “developer-friendly” thing Epic does that Steam doesn’t do better is asking for a smaller cut.

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    trousersmcpants@lemmy.world
    wrote on last edited by
    #42

    Yup, there’s a reason so many developers are willing to go to Steam despite them taking a larger cut. It was so weird that Epic seemed to market to consumers about how it was so much better for developers while they did nothing to actually make their platform desirable for either.

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    • pressedhams@lemmy.blahaj.zoneP pressedhams@lemmy.blahaj.zone

      I have never had remote play together work smoothly enough to actually play. Even when on the same network the input lag is problematic.

      J This user is from outside of this forum
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      jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
      wrote on last edited by
      #43

      It works great for me on wifie 6e, I did have issues using remote play from my PC to my deck until I disabled AX for the 2.4/5ghz networks on my router tho

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      1
      • R Rentlar

        The meme of “Valve maintains dominance by doing nothing but waits for competition to trip over itself” is funny but they do put part of the billions they make towards beneficial products for their customers.

        • Remote Play (stream your own game from another PC)
        • Remote Play Together (can stream a game to friends without a copy of the game and play together)
        • Linux, Proton
        • Well designed hardware innovations

        Not out of the goodness of their heart but to drive sales and foster a customer base willing to return.

        GOG and itch do try in their own way so I have bought from them, IMO they are the only competitors making serious efforts to build a mutually benefical gaming ecosystem.

        Epic, Microsoft, Ubisoft, EA and the rest are like a trapdoor with a wooden board over it. Tim Sweeney is standing there hoping you won’t think he’s trying to find the right time to swipe the board away and get you to fall in.

        J This user is from outside of this forum
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        jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
        wrote on last edited by
        #44

        Family sharing got a huge upgrade recently too where now only the game you’re actually playing is locked instead of your whole library.

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        • P peruvian_skies@sh.itjust.works

          It’s called shortsighted management.

          Valve has had success with Steam because they ask themselves “What do gamers want, and how can we turn a profit by giving it to them?” For example, many of us want to mod our games. Enter the Steam Workshop. It’s free, convenient and exclusive so it fidelizes (is that a word in English?) customers and indirectly makes them money while improving their image in the market.

          Epic’s management instead asks themselves “How can we make money off of gamers?” without trying to understand the market. They see that there are many free games on Steam, and many console exclusives, and their tiny MBA brains decide that the only way forward is with free games to lock us to their platform (that’s what Valve did, right?) and exclusives so we have no choice. And they have no idea why Valve waste their time with Workshop, Community forums for each game, Proton (Linux and Mac are such a tiny share of the market!) or any of that not-obviously-profitable filler that is in fact what sets Steam apart as a service rather than just a storefront.

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          bcsven@lemmy.ca
          wrote on last edited by
          #45

          The modding is great, I got so much extra content for Mudrunner by the mods available in the community.

          Same with Mech Warrior5, even just adding the war mod turned on more fire and smoke from salvos and thick clouds from burning mechs; it brought the game from a cartoony weapon feel to an actually battle scene.

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          • J jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works

            Family sharing got a huge upgrade recently too where now only the game you’re actually playing is locked instead of your whole library.

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            leninsovaries@lemmy.cafe
            wrote on last edited by
            #46

            It’s a sidegrade. The ability to share with overseas family was nixed, which sucks for immigrants

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            • thingsiplay@beehaw.orgT thingsiplay@beehaw.org

              Tim Swiney said on the game product page there should be no disclosure of Ai usage in the games, in response to Steam “forcing” the disclosure of what is being used Ai for. Just shows how I will avoid Epic Games Store even more than before. There are plenty other reasons. Epic will not buy me as a “user” by giving me free games (however I do not blame anyone else doing so, free is a great deal to be honest).

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              yeehaw
              wrote on last edited by
              #47

              I collected free games for sure. I don’t even know if I played many of them. Tbh most of them were older and would go on sale on steam and I’d just buy them there.

              Also steams Linux support is so good, I just can’t do epic

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              • R Rentlar

                The meme of “Valve maintains dominance by doing nothing but waits for competition to trip over itself” is funny but they do put part of the billions they make towards beneficial products for their customers.

                • Remote Play (stream your own game from another PC)
                • Remote Play Together (can stream a game to friends without a copy of the game and play together)
                • Linux, Proton
                • Well designed hardware innovations

                Not out of the goodness of their heart but to drive sales and foster a customer base willing to return.

                GOG and itch do try in their own way so I have bought from them, IMO they are the only competitors making serious efforts to build a mutually benefical gaming ecosystem.

                Epic, Microsoft, Ubisoft, EA and the rest are like a trapdoor with a wooden board over it. Tim Sweeney is standing there hoping you won’t think he’s trying to find the right time to swipe the board away and get you to fall in.

                H This user is from outside of this forum
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                halfsalesman
                wrote on last edited by
                #48

                Not out of the goodness of their heart but to drive sales and foster a customer base willing to return.

                I think this is partially true, but also I legit think Gabe Newell is ideologically a market anarchist that legitimately loves video games as a medium. He probably could have (more safely) made even more money doing something else considering his early Microsoft connections and ability but he didn’t.

                Unfortunately as a result, the moment hes dead Valve might be in trouble long term. Depends on who takes over afterward and how they want to direct Valve. Pierre-Loup Griffais or Lawrence Yang seem possible given how successful Steam Deck has been. Its hard to get a read on them. They seem smart and well meaning though.

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                • H halfsalesman

                  Not out of the goodness of their heart but to drive sales and foster a customer base willing to return.

                  I think this is partially true, but also I legit think Gabe Newell is ideologically a market anarchist that legitimately loves video games as a medium. He probably could have (more safely) made even more money doing something else considering his early Microsoft connections and ability but he didn’t.

                  Unfortunately as a result, the moment hes dead Valve might be in trouble long term. Depends on who takes over afterward and how they want to direct Valve. Pierre-Loup Griffais or Lawrence Yang seem possible given how successful Steam Deck has been. Its hard to get a read on them. They seem smart and well meaning though.

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                  zorque@lemmy.world
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #49

                  Based on what I’ve heard of the internal structure of Valve, there’s a good chance he’s helped foster enough an environment of “doing what you love” that it’d survive him retiring/dying. Maybe not forever, but at least for a long while after he’s gone.

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                  • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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                    Epic fails to compete with Steam because “EGS is a shop, Steam is a community”, says Witchfire lead, as Epic has “nothing to do but to buy”

                    Why do gamers refuse to use the Epic Games Store? Former Epic exclusive Witchfire developer Adrian Chmielarz explains its because Steam is a home.

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                    FRVR (frvr.com)

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                    stupendous@lemmy.world
                    wrote on last edited by stupendous@lemmy.world
                    #50

                    It’s a moving target. Everything I care about video game stores now I did not care when it was new. Steam itself in 2003, need it to update to latest counter strike. By 2014 years later, I’m done managing updates for individual games by looking on websites online for downlads. I want a store client like Steam to handle that. Didn’t care for the first half of Steams life. I was still buying physical PC games when I could up to 2014. That’s why I said 2014

                    Didn’t care about linux Steam because it sucked until Proton. Since Proton I care. Didn’t care about big picture mode because steam machines bombed the first time and I didn’t use remote play. Now I use remote play and regularly use big picture mode because I buy big phones with OLEDs and remote play is great now because of that. Phones are why I care about 21:9 support as much as I do now.

                    Didn’t care about Steam Input because I was kb/m all day type of person. I play with gamepads more now. Steam Input is major. Indie games were less common in 2008 and a lot less complex than they are today. Easy to get the good ones because everyone talked about them. Now most good indie games have no reviews on open/metacritic. Steam reviews and curators point me to the majority of my purchased indie games. Also even the studio/publisher pages that Steam has now showing what they have released. That’s the other way I find games. Steam has brand pages for a while now. I actually use those like here for koei tecmo

                    Link Preview Image
                    Steam Developer: KOEI TECMO

                    favicon

                    (store.steampowered.com)

                    Or smaller game XD. Played Icey and ended up trying a couple games under them through the publisher Steam page

                    Link Preview Image
                    Steam Developer: XD International

                    From the drawing board to your Steam library, we are all about dreaming up games and getting them out there. We develop, we publish, and we play. [PR/Partnerships Contact: cooperation@xd.com]

                    favicon

                    (store.steampowered.com)

                    Library organization. Did not care about the collections feature until this year. Same with the user submitted store page tags. The collections feature can create from those tags and I make custom collections too to organize my big library. I just recently learned you can drag and drop rather than right click add to collection.

                    Sounds simple but it sucks on pretty much every PC store platform software besides steam. Managing multiple drives. Moving game folders between drives and the store client handling it well

                    numerous other things that come in handy from time to time. Like user created guides. SteamOS is more featureful than the OS’s on a PlayStation 5 or Xbox Series before even exiting out to the desktop mode. Remember Mixer on Xbox. Steam has broadcasts and has had it for a long time now and it’s never been popular but they never killed it and now I occasionally use it to check out how a new game looks. MS would have killed broadcasts like they killed Mixer when it didn’t become a mega hit. Steam keeps it’s niche features ongoing and generally improves over time even if at a snails pace. MS and other companies, they just kill the feature

                    Latest thing that is just as much Valve as it is community. PC gaming on Android. Valve initiated funding for Fex emu and it’s paying dividends now that you can run a lot of Steam games on Android now. Same with recent versions of Proton/Wine that now have ARM builds for them. Major boon to Android PC game emulation. Eventually going to be a major plus for Steam in user friendliness compared to the storefronts not putting resources towards easy x86 to ARM translation support

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                    • Z zorque@lemmy.world

                      Based on what I’ve heard of the internal structure of Valve, there’s a good chance he’s helped foster enough an environment of “doing what you love” that it’d survive him retiring/dying. Maybe not forever, but at least for a long while after he’s gone.

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                      mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #51

                      And hopefully by that time they’ve built up the open source community enough that even if Valve turned bad they wouldn’t be able to do much damage

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                      • P popcar2

                        Alright I know people rag on Epic all the time… but it’s truly incredible how hard they keep dropping the ball. It’s been SEVEN YEARS since it was created and it still feels so basic and terrible to use.

                        The store is drab and uses huge chunks of space just to advertise fortnite and f2p rewards. Discovery is terrible and the store is full of crypto scams and AI spam shovelware, which is ironic because Epic started off being very selective about what’s allowed to be published there. The store also feels like adware because it keeps spamming random notifications and ads unless you turn it off.

                        The best part is that Epic constantly blames users for not wanting to leave Steam instead of admitting their store sucks. They keep spending tens of millions buying exclusives and giving away games for free rather than spending any time improving the store. Seriously, what are they doing over there?

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                        taldan@lemmy.world
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #52

                        To be fair to Epic, I don’t want to leave Steam. It’s great having most of my games in one place. Steam has had very pro-customer policies. Even when I got some free games on Epic, if I ended up playing them a lot, I would just buy the game on Steam when it next went on sale just to keep my collection in one place

                        As long as Steam keeps favoring the users, I’ll keep using it

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                        • J jesus_666@lemmy.world

                          The reviews are a part of the community, even if they’re not found in the “Community” part of Steam.

                          But yeah, EGS has many failings, pretty much all of which were pointed out right at the start. They weren’t improved upon because Epic don’t want to deliver the best possible experience or promote the capability of the PC as a gaming platform. They just want you to buy digital shit, get bored of it, and then buy more digital shit at the lowest possible cost to them. Effort costs money so they won’t make any.

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                          taldan@lemmy.world
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #53

                          Steam is the only platform I can think of where I actually still trust the review

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                          • J jesus_666@lemmy.world

                            The reviews are a part of the community, even if they’re not found in the “Community” part of Steam.

                            But yeah, EGS has many failings, pretty much all of which were pointed out right at the start. They weren’t improved upon because Epic don’t want to deliver the best possible experience or promote the capability of the PC as a gaming platform. They just want you to buy digital shit, get bored of it, and then buy more digital shit at the lowest possible cost to them. Effort costs money so they won’t make any.

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                            mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #54

                            Effort costs money so they won’t make any.

                            Well, at least in Tim Sweeney’s twisted mind that’s how it works. In reality, spending $100,000 to have a developer actually support the year would do way more to get long term customers on the store while coating a pittance jn comparison to how much EGS spent on exclusivity deals.

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                            • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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                              Epic fails to compete with Steam because “EGS is a shop, Steam is a community”, says Witchfire lead, as Epic has “nothing to do but to buy”

                              Why do gamers refuse to use the Epic Games Store? Former Epic exclusive Witchfire developer Adrian Chmielarz explains its because Steam is a home.

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                              moonraven@feddit.nl
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #55

                              Steam is easy to use. Egs always feels slow and bloated even though it doesn’t have things to load.

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                              • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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                                Epic fails to compete with Steam because “EGS is a shop, Steam is a community”, says Witchfire lead, as Epic has “nothing to do but to buy”

                                Why do gamers refuse to use the Epic Games Store? Former Epic exclusive Witchfire developer Adrian Chmielarz explains its because Steam is a home.

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                                belated_frog_pants@beehaw.org
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #56

                                News flash: epic was never anyones friend or any type of “good guy”.

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                                • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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                                  Epic fails to compete with Steam because “EGS is a shop, Steam is a community”, says Witchfire lead, as Epic has “nothing to do but to buy”

                                  Why do gamers refuse to use the Epic Games Store? Former Epic exclusive Witchfire developer Adrian Chmielarz explains its because Steam is a home.

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                                  krauerking@lemy.lol
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #57

                                  Just as a reminder you still can not see the games in your library for Epic without getting the desktop app or looking at your past purchases.

                                  Absolutely dense how bad and how little you can do with their game store.

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                                  • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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                                    Epic fails to compete with Steam because “EGS is a shop, Steam is a community”, says Witchfire lead, as Epic has “nothing to do but to buy”

                                    Why do gamers refuse to use the Epic Games Store? Former Epic exclusive Witchfire developer Adrian Chmielarz explains its because Steam is a home.

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                                    donebrach@lemmy.world
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #58

                                    I mean, I got a bunch of free games off epic, and have never touched any of them.

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                                    • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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                                      Epic fails to compete with Steam because “EGS is a shop, Steam is a community”, says Witchfire lead, as Epic has “nothing to do but to buy”

                                      Why do gamers refuse to use the Epic Games Store? Former Epic exclusive Witchfire developer Adrian Chmielarz explains its because Steam is a home.

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                                      abbiistabbii@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #59

                                      I mean isn’t replacing community with consumerism one of the main goals of modern capitalism?

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                                      • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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                                        Epic fails to compete with Steam because “EGS is a shop, Steam is a community”, says Witchfire lead, as Epic has “nothing to do but to buy”

                                        Why do gamers refuse to use the Epic Games Store? Former Epic exclusive Witchfire developer Adrian Chmielarz explains its because Steam is a home.

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                                        remembertheapollo_@lemmy.world
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #60

                                        I feel like there’s a bunch of choosing beggars in here. Grabbed a crapload of free games, games they didn’t pay for, and complaining about how they’re delivered.

                                        P R 2 Replies Last reply
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                                        • W washedupcynic@lemmy.ca

                                          Almost a decade ago I was playing a game called paragon in development by epic games. The game was amazing, and then epic forced the devs away from what the game was, a MOBA, and forced the devs to make it more like a brawler with smaller and smaller maps. Epic ignored the community playing the game and acted shocked when the community left. While all this was going down, they were alpha testing fortnight, which was a plants, zombies clone with base building. When PubG took off, they killed Paragon, rolled the assets into fornite, and abandoned what fortnite was to turn it into a PubG copycat. (Highly recommend predecessor, a fan made remake from the released paragon assets with og heros, it’s on steam.)

                                          Epic doesn’t have an original thought rattling around in the heads of their MBAs and C-suite. They copy what others are doing, and pray that some of the shit they fling against the wall will stick. They don’t want to take chances or innovate. Plenty of other options out there besides their game engine too. I’m looking forward to the fall of epic and EGS.

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                                          Gamma
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #61

                                          They got SO lucky with that Fortnite pivot, the original game was in development hell

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