An interesting piece about the #ttrpg media landscape: https://personable.blog/media-crowdfunding/
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@Printdevil @pteryx @Taskerland @cy @foolishowl Yeah, though I have a rant brewing about Doctor Who second edition, which gets rid of its great long list of positive and negative Traits, and instead says "you have Distinctions, they're all the same cost, here is no guidance at all as to what makes a sensible Distinction, make it up have fun you novice who picked this up in a bookshop".
Doctor Who is a really bad fit for a generation(s) of gamers who grew up with hit points. The halo effect of "the players kinda don't get exterminated while being are dying in droves around them all the time" is a odd thing in a game. It stands out like a sore thumb.
As I mentioned to @zozo I think a generic "Time Hobo" character might work better in most situations than trying replicate the TV show. Because it's weird
Except the gargoyles.
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Doctor Who is a really bad fit for a generation(s) of gamers who grew up with hit points. The halo effect of "the players kinda don't get exterminated while being are dying in droves around them all the time" is a odd thing in a game. It stands out like a sore thumb.
As I mentioned to @zozo I think a generic "Time Hobo" character might work better in most situations than trying replicate the TV show. Because it's weird
Except the gargoyles.
@Printdevil @zozo @pteryx @Taskerland @cy @foolishowl Well from a gaming perspective I _start_ from the premise of "the old show with a cosmic hobo, not the new show with a junior god who can do Anything".
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@Printdevil @zozo @pteryx @Taskerland @cy @foolishowl Well from a gaming perspective I _start_ from the premise of "the old show with a cosmic hobo, not the new show with a junior god who can do Anything".
We are not at home to nuWho.
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We are not at home to nuWho.
@Printdevil @zozo @pteryx @Taskerland @cy @foolishowl "Series 7½" is what I'm playing with at the moment. Basically the series 7 core cast, minus the Doctor, doing UNIT things.
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@Printdevil @zozo @pteryx @Taskerland @cy @foolishowl Well from a gaming perspective I _start_ from the premise of "the old show with a cosmic hobo, not the new show with a junior god who can do Anything".
I think you could get some mileage in a Time-Travel scenario book that was badges filed off Dr Who though
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I think you could get some mileage in a Time-Travel scenario book that was badges filed off Dr Who though
@Printdevil @zozo @pteryx @Taskerland @cy @foolishowl Let's start with: do you mean adventures in Historyland where the time machine just shows up at the start and the end, or adventures that are about time travel?
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@Printdevil @zozo @pteryx @Taskerland @cy @foolishowl Let's start with: do you mean adventures in Historyland where the time machine just shows up at the start and the end, or adventures that are about time travel?
Show up, weird, fix weird, jolly off to the next place. Repeat.
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@cy @Printdevil @Taskerland @pteryx One of the things I don't like about a lot of multi-player computer games is that narrative and imagery are distractions from game play. I'd say "treated as distractions", but this has been a norm for decades, so designers must be aware of it by now and design accordingly.
It's less an escape from reality than an exaggeration of it, in which you are punished for paying attention to history or sensuous detail or asking questions about what you're doing.
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@cy @Printdevil @Taskerland @pteryx One of the things I don't like about a lot of multi-player computer games is that narrative and imagery are distractions from game play. I'd say "treated as distractions", but this has been a norm for decades, so designers must be aware of it by now and design accordingly.
It's less an escape from reality than an exaggeration of it, in which you are punished for paying attention to history or sensuous detail or asking questions about what you're doing.
@cy @Printdevil @Taskerland @pteryx I enjoy playing computer games, by myself, in which I'm solving some sort of puzzle, counting tactical challenges as puzzles, but, I'm not particularly good at math, or at puzzles, and it feels awkward and embarrassing to work through them in a group. That's just not the experience I'm looking for.
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@cy @Printdevil @Taskerland @pteryx One of the things I don't like about a lot of multi-player computer games is that narrative and imagery are distractions from game play. I'd say "treated as distractions", but this has been a norm for decades, so designers must be aware of it by now and design accordingly.
It's less an escape from reality than an exaggeration of it, in which you are punished for paying attention to history or sensuous detail or asking questions about what you're doing.
I like to call them a simulation of reality. Or (you know) a game, because that's what a game is. People who want to escape something don't play games about it.
Trouble is the modern culture has confused gambling for games. You see people playing football, they're practicing at hunting, or fighting, or real things that the game is a safe substitute for. Then the announcers come in and tell you to place your bets. -_- Goes beyond video games, really.
CC: @Printdevil@dice.camp @Taskerland@dice.camp @pteryx@dice.camp -
RPGs are a curious magical thing. Gossmer ideas often handled by clowns. Modern gaming very much a curate's egg.
@Printdevil @pteryx @foolishowl @Taskerland Remembering the point of that cartoon, which people don't get these days because they have never met a bad egg and therefore don't understand how impossible it is for parts of it to be excellent.
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@Printdevil @Taskerland @cy @foolishowl
Which does make me wonder if TTRPGs were even the kind of thing they wanted to play in the first place, or if their participation in something so *cooperative* was more of an imposition from their perspective. Kind of like how even today, there are wallflower "players" who only "play" because that's what the rest of the group is doing.(I mean, I don't mind audience members, but they shouldn't pretend to be players...)
Hey I'll play board games just because that's what the rest of the group is doing. Which is all I ever get to do. So I think it's fine if someone puts aside their boards once and a while to do roleplaying. The whole thing about groups and cooperation is there's rarely something everyone wants to do.
CC: @Printdevil@dice.camp @Taskerland@dice.camp @foolishowl@social.coop -
Hey I'll play board games just because that's what the rest of the group is doing. Which is all I ever get to do. So I think it's fine if someone puts aside their boards once and a while to do roleplaying. The whole thing about groups and cooperation is there's rarely something everyone wants to do.
CC: @Printdevil@dice.camp @Taskerland@dice.camp @foolishowl@social.coopI think the problem comes extra-group were you have no social contract
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The number of people who just went "but why should we ever learn another rule set, we know D20" drove me out of the clubs. I could see the issues with monocrop so far off, and it was just.. disheartening.
What gets me these days is the "Dungeons and Dragons Adventurer League." It's basically a giant competition that is super strict about rules and tries to get people roleplaying for points, for actual status in the organization. And you pay dues, of course, so this organization pays to monopolize gaming clubs everywhere. They make it so you have to have every session notorized to validate your character's gain in XP, and if the character dies you can't use them ever again. And it is ALWAYS D&D.
So now people are stuck paying actual money on a regular basis just because they didn't see anything wrong with a monoculture.
CC: @Taskerland@dice.camp @pteryx@dice.camp @foolishowl@social.coop -
I think the problem comes extra-group were you have no social contract
What how did you know have you been spying on me??? -
What gets me these days is the "Dungeons and Dragons Adventurer League." It's basically a giant competition that is super strict about rules and tries to get people roleplaying for points, for actual status in the organization. And you pay dues, of course, so this organization pays to monopolize gaming clubs everywhere. They make it so you have to have every session notorized to validate your character's gain in XP, and if the character dies you can't use them ever again. And it is ALWAYS D&D.
So now people are stuck paying actual money on a regular basis just because they didn't see anything wrong with a monoculture.
CC: @Taskerland@dice.camp @pteryx@dice.camp @foolishowl@social.coop@cy @Taskerland @foolishowl @Printdevil
Well, sometimes Pathfinder Society is available too, but that falls into the "that's fine to also call Kleenex" range.(Really, PFS seems to be worse in that they seem to have more influence over the default rules of the game for everyone else, so, for example, Pathfinder 2nd Edition has absolutely terrible crafting rules simply because PFS hate hate HATES crafting.)
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@cy @Taskerland @foolishowl @Printdevil
Well, sometimes Pathfinder Society is available too, but that falls into the "that's fine to also call Kleenex" range.(Really, PFS seems to be worse in that they seem to have more influence over the default rules of the game for everyone else, so, for example, Pathfinder 2nd Edition has absolutely terrible crafting rules simply because PFS hate hate HATES crafting.)
Yeesh, haven't run into that yet.
CC: @Taskerland@dice.camp @foolishowl@social.coop @Printdevil@dice.camp -
Yeesh, haven't run into that yet.
CC: @Taskerland@dice.camp @foolishowl@social.coop @Printdevil@dice.camp@cy @Taskerland @Printdevil @pteryx I played in Adventurers League games years ago, a few times on my own, a few with my younger stepchild. We weren't charged for it. A lot of the players were in their thirties and forties and hadn't played TTRPGs since their teens, so I fit in, in that respect. It made sense to have organized play to introduce people to the hobby, but the idea of standardizing the experience was strange -- like the goal was a slow MMO.
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@cy @Taskerland @Printdevil @pteryx I played in Adventurers League games years ago, a few times on my own, a few with my younger stepchild. We weren't charged for it. A lot of the players were in their thirties and forties and hadn't played TTRPGs since their teens, so I fit in, in that respect. It made sense to have organized play to introduce people to the hobby, but the idea of standardizing the experience was strange -- like the goal was a slow MMO.
@cy @Taskerland @Printdevil @pteryx People started creating computer games based on D&D very early in its history. The first and second waves of MMORPGs were characterized by developers and players trying to support role-playing and organic narrative, but there were too many practical limitations. I also played in Neverwinter Nights "persistent worlds", which were more flexible, but still severely limited by the use of computer graphics and tooling.
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@cy @Taskerland @Printdevil @pteryx People started creating computer games based on D&D very early in its history. The first and second waves of MMORPGs were characterized by developers and players trying to support role-playing and organic narrative, but there were too many practical limitations. I also played in Neverwinter Nights "persistent worlds", which were more flexible, but still severely limited by the use of computer graphics and tooling.
@cy @Taskerland @Printdevil @pteryx So I find it strange to try to reproduce the MMO experience at the table. I'm also cautious about VTTs -- the more elaborate the graphics, the greater the constraint on actual play.
