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  3. Schools have long taught that humans populated North America around 12K yrs ago by crossing the Bering land bridge.

Schools have long taught that humans populated North America around 12K yrs ago by crossing the Bering land bridge.

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  • ToastieT This user is from outside of this forum
    ToastieT This user is from outside of this forum
    Toastie
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Schools have long taught that humans populated North America around 12K yrs ago by crossing the Bering land bridge. This story supports settler colonialism, and contradicts #Indigenous stories, which offer memories of human habitation here during the last glacial maximum.

    Also, the Bering land bridge story falls apart when you find out about the century of archaeological evidence academia has vigorously suppressed.

    Read more in my new essay. 👇

    Link Preview Image
    What does ‘time immemorial’ really mean? - High Country News

    If you’ve seen the phrase time immemorial used repeatedly in Indigenous affairs reporting, there are some compelling reasons why.

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    High Country News (www.hcn.org)

    Dawn NafusD SaraS Steve FeltenS Ricardo HarvinR Don RayD 11 Replies Last reply
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    • ToastieT Toastie

      Schools have long taught that humans populated North America around 12K yrs ago by crossing the Bering land bridge. This story supports settler colonialism, and contradicts #Indigenous stories, which offer memories of human habitation here during the last glacial maximum.

      Also, the Bering land bridge story falls apart when you find out about the century of archaeological evidence academia has vigorously suppressed.

      Read more in my new essay. 👇

      Link Preview Image
      What does ‘time immemorial’ really mean? - High Country News

      If you’ve seen the phrase time immemorial used repeatedly in Indigenous affairs reporting, there are some compelling reasons why.

      favicon

      High Country News (www.hcn.org)

      Dawn NafusD This user is from outside of this forum
      Dawn NafusD This user is from outside of this forum
      Dawn Nafus
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      @Toastie Thanks for writing this! I had always balked at the phrase before reading this, because I thought it was a way for white folks to imply indigenous people were somehow static, lacking "progress" and therefore in need of a white savior. Hadn't understood the usage that you describe here until now.

      ToastieT 1 Reply Last reply
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      • Dawn NafusD Dawn Nafus

        @Toastie Thanks for writing this! I had always balked at the phrase before reading this, because I thought it was a way for white folks to imply indigenous people were somehow static, lacking "progress" and therefore in need of a white savior. Hadn't understood the usage that you describe here until now.

        ToastieT This user is from outside of this forum
        ToastieT This user is from outside of this forum
        Toastie
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        @dawnnafus Very glad to clear that up! 😄

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • ToastieT Toastie

          Schools have long taught that humans populated North America around 12K yrs ago by crossing the Bering land bridge. This story supports settler colonialism, and contradicts #Indigenous stories, which offer memories of human habitation here during the last glacial maximum.

          Also, the Bering land bridge story falls apart when you find out about the century of archaeological evidence academia has vigorously suppressed.

          Read more in my new essay. 👇

          Link Preview Image
          What does ‘time immemorial’ really mean? - High Country News

          If you’ve seen the phrase time immemorial used repeatedly in Indigenous affairs reporting, there are some compelling reasons why.

          favicon

          High Country News (www.hcn.org)

          SaraS This user is from outside of this forum
          SaraS This user is from outside of this forum
          Sara
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @Toastie boats boats boats boats

          boats boats boats

          (you will have to imagine the little dance that goes with this song; it's the kind of dance that explains why nobody invites me to archaeologist parties)

          (why would people who were EXTREMELY GOOD AT BOATS walk across an ice field)

          (ugh you've heard this rant already)

          ToastieT 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • ToastieT Toastie

            Schools have long taught that humans populated North America around 12K yrs ago by crossing the Bering land bridge. This story supports settler colonialism, and contradicts #Indigenous stories, which offer memories of human habitation here during the last glacial maximum.

            Also, the Bering land bridge story falls apart when you find out about the century of archaeological evidence academia has vigorously suppressed.

            Read more in my new essay. 👇

            Link Preview Image
            What does ‘time immemorial’ really mean? - High Country News

            If you’ve seen the phrase time immemorial used repeatedly in Indigenous affairs reporting, there are some compelling reasons why.

            favicon

            High Country News (www.hcn.org)

            Steve FeltenS This user is from outside of this forum
            Steve FeltenS This user is from outside of this forum
            Steve Felten
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            @Toastie I saw a film about the salmon restoration on the Columbia River at the Tamástslikt museum, and was devastated when the current administration reneged on the commitment. Wisdom from time immemorial should be shared for the benefit of all humanity. I hope we can reverse direction before it’s too late.

            ToastieT 1 Reply Last reply
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            • SaraS Sara

              @Toastie boats boats boats boats

              boats boats boats

              (you will have to imagine the little dance that goes with this song; it's the kind of dance that explains why nobody invites me to archaeologist parties)

              (why would people who were EXTREMELY GOOD AT BOATS walk across an ice field)

              (ugh you've heard this rant already)

              ToastieT This user is from outside of this forum
              ToastieT This user is from outside of this forum
              Toastie
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              @sarae I did put some effort into finding a way to shoehorn into this story that chickens got here from SE Asia (SOMEHOW (boats)) well before Europeans crossed the Atlantic.

              SaraS 1 Reply Last reply
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              • Steve FeltenS Steve Felten

                @Toastie I saw a film about the salmon restoration on the Columbia River at the Tamástslikt museum, and was devastated when the current administration reneged on the commitment. Wisdom from time immemorial should be shared for the benefit of all humanity. I hope we can reverse direction before it’s too late.

                ToastieT This user is from outside of this forum
                ToastieT This user is from outside of this forum
                Toastie
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @stevefelten I hope so too. Except that some of that wisdom isn't meant to be shared. But the salmon, their habitat, and all American watersheds and lands are crying out to be cared for properly again.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • ToastieT Toastie

                  @sarae I did put some effort into finding a way to shoehorn into this story that chickens got here from SE Asia (SOMEHOW (boats)) well before Europeans crossed the Atlantic.

                  SaraS This user is from outside of this forum
                  SaraS This user is from outside of this forum
                  Sara
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @Toastie it's a MYSTERY and was definitely not a bunch of hypercompetent Indigenous people from maritime civilizations

                  (seriously I have to wonder if the problem is that not enough people have tried both snowshoeing and canoeing, because if you've done both I can't see how you argue about this land bridge crap)

                  ToastieT 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • SaraS Sara

                    @Toastie it's a MYSTERY and was definitely not a bunch of hypercompetent Indigenous people from maritime civilizations

                    (seriously I have to wonder if the problem is that not enough people have tried both snowshoeing and canoeing, because if you've done both I can't see how you argue about this land bridge crap)

                    ToastieT This user is from outside of this forum
                    ToastieT This user is from outside of this forum
                    Toastie
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @sarae Actually now that I think about it this hemisphere is not so much the West as kinda the ultra-East. 🤔

                    SaraS 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • ToastieT Toastie

                      Schools have long taught that humans populated North America around 12K yrs ago by crossing the Bering land bridge. This story supports settler colonialism, and contradicts #Indigenous stories, which offer memories of human habitation here during the last glacial maximum.

                      Also, the Bering land bridge story falls apart when you find out about the century of archaeological evidence academia has vigorously suppressed.

                      Read more in my new essay. 👇

                      Link Preview Image
                      What does ‘time immemorial’ really mean? - High Country News

                      If you’ve seen the phrase time immemorial used repeatedly in Indigenous affairs reporting, there are some compelling reasons why.

                      favicon

                      High Country News (www.hcn.org)

                      Ricardo HarvinR This user is from outside of this forum
                      Ricardo HarvinR This user is from outside of this forum
                      Ricardo Harvin
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @Toastie Ironic how oral histories are disregarded, considered mere tales and not real history by the white establishment, while one of the most revered written works for that establishment is Fahrenheit 451, with its book people as heroic figures.

                      ToastieT 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • Ricardo HarvinR Ricardo Harvin

                        @Toastie Ironic how oral histories are disregarded, considered mere tales and not real history by the white establishment, while one of the most revered written works for that establishment is Fahrenheit 451, with its book people as heroic figures.

                        ToastieT This user is from outside of this forum
                        ToastieT This user is from outside of this forum
                        Toastie
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        @ricardoharvin Only certain kinds of facts are facts. 🙃

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • ToastieT Toastie

                          @sarae Actually now that I think about it this hemisphere is not so much the West as kinda the ultra-East. 🤔

                          SaraS This user is from outside of this forum
                          SaraS This user is from outside of this forum
                          Sara
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          @Toastie isn't there a part in Narnia where the talking rat explains that to us?

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • ToastieT Toastie

                            Schools have long taught that humans populated North America around 12K yrs ago by crossing the Bering land bridge. This story supports settler colonialism, and contradicts #Indigenous stories, which offer memories of human habitation here during the last glacial maximum.

                            Also, the Bering land bridge story falls apart when you find out about the century of archaeological evidence academia has vigorously suppressed.

                            Read more in my new essay. 👇

                            Link Preview Image
                            What does ‘time immemorial’ really mean? - High Country News

                            If you’ve seen the phrase time immemorial used repeatedly in Indigenous affairs reporting, there are some compelling reasons why.

                            favicon

                            High Country News (www.hcn.org)

                            Don RayD This user is from outside of this forum
                            Don RayD This user is from outside of this forum
                            Don Ray
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            @Toastie

                            I was thinking about this archeological site while reading your essay. It’s one of the sites you mentioned: Chiquihuite Cave in Mexico. Artifacts that are possibly 33,000 years old.

                            Link Preview Image
                            Earliest evidence for humans in the Americas

                            Humans settled in the Americas much earlier than previously thought, according to new finds from Mexico.

                            favicon

                            (www.bbc.com)

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • ToastieT Toastie

                              Schools have long taught that humans populated North America around 12K yrs ago by crossing the Bering land bridge. This story supports settler colonialism, and contradicts #Indigenous stories, which offer memories of human habitation here during the last glacial maximum.

                              Also, the Bering land bridge story falls apart when you find out about the century of archaeological evidence academia has vigorously suppressed.

                              Read more in my new essay. 👇

                              Link Preview Image
                              What does ‘time immemorial’ really mean? - High Country News

                              If you’ve seen the phrase time immemorial used repeatedly in Indigenous affairs reporting, there are some compelling reasons why.

                              favicon

                              High Country News (www.hcn.org)

                              Steve Moore :toad:A This user is from outside of this forum
                              Steve Moore :toad:A This user is from outside of this forum
                              Steve Moore :toad:
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              @Toastie Maybe folks entrenched in a European linear time concept have a hard time bending their minds around Indigenous cyclical time. Indigenous story telling often doesn’t have a beginning or end, it wraps around itself. It can give a view from the inside and the outside simultaneously. ‘Time immemorial’ fits in that landscape.
                              When Cortez entered Tenochtitlán, he had never seen anything anywhere that could match it for beauty & sophistication. A year later, he destroyed it.

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                              • ToastieT Toastie

                                Schools have long taught that humans populated North America around 12K yrs ago by crossing the Bering land bridge. This story supports settler colonialism, and contradicts #Indigenous stories, which offer memories of human habitation here during the last glacial maximum.

                                Also, the Bering land bridge story falls apart when you find out about the century of archaeological evidence academia has vigorously suppressed.

                                Read more in my new essay. 👇

                                Link Preview Image
                                What does ‘time immemorial’ really mean? - High Country News

                                If you’ve seen the phrase time immemorial used repeatedly in Indigenous affairs reporting, there are some compelling reasons why.

                                favicon

                                High Country News (www.hcn.org)

                                Brian VastagB This user is from outside of this forum
                                Brian VastagB This user is from outside of this forum
                                Brian Vastag
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                @Toastie I appreciate you writing this. One of my thoughts is that my science journalism colleagues have been leaning on Clovis-first as a storytelling crutch for about...oh 30 years. Meaning it's very easy to repeat: "Archaeologists have long held that humans first arrived in the Americas 12,000 years ago, but new finds challenge that..."

                                There's so much pre-Clovis evidence now that it's time to retire that line. And I think younger archaeologists are more in tune with your view. 1/2

                                Brian VastagB 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • Brian VastagB Brian Vastag

                                  @Toastie I appreciate you writing this. One of my thoughts is that my science journalism colleagues have been leaning on Clovis-first as a storytelling crutch for about...oh 30 years. Meaning it's very easy to repeat: "Archaeologists have long held that humans first arrived in the Americas 12,000 years ago, but new finds challenge that..."

                                  There's so much pre-Clovis evidence now that it's time to retire that line. And I think younger archaeologists are more in tune with your view. 1/2

                                  Brian VastagB This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Brian VastagB This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Brian Vastag
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  @Toastie I did several stories about pre-Clovis sites and found many researchers open to the evidence. There are certainly old, curmudgeonly Clovis-firsters who will never change but you've maybe heard the adage about how scientific dogma advances....one death at a time.

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                                  • ToastieT Toastie

                                    Schools have long taught that humans populated North America around 12K yrs ago by crossing the Bering land bridge. This story supports settler colonialism, and contradicts #Indigenous stories, which offer memories of human habitation here during the last glacial maximum.

                                    Also, the Bering land bridge story falls apart when you find out about the century of archaeological evidence academia has vigorously suppressed.

                                    Read more in my new essay. 👇

                                    Link Preview Image
                                    What does ‘time immemorial’ really mean? - High Country News

                                    If you’ve seen the phrase time immemorial used repeatedly in Indigenous affairs reporting, there are some compelling reasons why.

                                    favicon

                                    High Country News (www.hcn.org)

                                    disorderlyfD This user is from outside of this forum
                                    disorderlyfD This user is from outside of this forum
                                    disorderlyf
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    @Toastie Funnily enough, I noticed linguistic similarities between certain East Asian languages and the one indigenous language I have any knowledge about. It seems odd there would be more linguistic similarities with peoples that would've come from thousands of miles away from the Bering Strait

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                                    • ToastieT Toastie

                                      Schools have long taught that humans populated North America around 12K yrs ago by crossing the Bering land bridge. This story supports settler colonialism, and contradicts #Indigenous stories, which offer memories of human habitation here during the last glacial maximum.

                                      Also, the Bering land bridge story falls apart when you find out about the century of archaeological evidence academia has vigorously suppressed.

                                      Read more in my new essay. 👇

                                      Link Preview Image
                                      What does ‘time immemorial’ really mean? - High Country News

                                      If you’ve seen the phrase time immemorial used repeatedly in Indigenous affairs reporting, there are some compelling reasons why.

                                      favicon

                                      High Country News (www.hcn.org)

                                      Malus is here nowM This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Malus is here nowM This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Malus is here now
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      @Toastie
                                      i really don't know enough about anthropology or history to say anything insightful but there is something mind-boggling to me (white, settler) in an oral history covering multiple tens of thousands of years. it would not surprise me at all if one of the reasons white scientists/anthropologists still hang onto the bering strait theory is being unable to contend with what that really means. like, just rejecting the idea because they can't envision it.

                                      i don't think the white/colonizer frame of mind can handle the concept of being connected to a place for that long- for having a living history that goes that far back, ESPECIALLY for those of us in the americas where we've only been here a hair over 500 years- with most of us only getting here in the past hundred years or so.

                                      (hopefully this is coherent. late-night posting)

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                                      • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert shared this topic on
                                      • ToastieT Toastie

                                        Schools have long taught that humans populated North America around 12K yrs ago by crossing the Bering land bridge. This story supports settler colonialism, and contradicts #Indigenous stories, which offer memories of human habitation here during the last glacial maximum.

                                        Also, the Bering land bridge story falls apart when you find out about the century of archaeological evidence academia has vigorously suppressed.

                                        Read more in my new essay. 👇

                                        Link Preview Image
                                        What does ‘time immemorial’ really mean? - High Country News

                                        If you’ve seen the phrase time immemorial used repeatedly in Indigenous affairs reporting, there are some compelling reasons why.

                                        favicon

                                        High Country News (www.hcn.org)

                                        AudunA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        AudunA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Audun
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        @Toastie while this is very interesting, I don't understand how the 12k yrs ago story supports settler colonialism. Do people really argue that way?

                                        That people who arrived 12k years are "just another batch of recent arrivals who kill everything in sight" doesn't make sense. Northern Scandinavia was populated about 12k years ago, so by European standards it is not recent in any way.

                                        Of course, that's on the people who make such claims, but it is a very odd argument, regardless of whether North America was populated 50k years ago or "just" 12k years ago.

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                                        • ToastieT Toastie

                                          Schools have long taught that humans populated North America around 12K yrs ago by crossing the Bering land bridge. This story supports settler colonialism, and contradicts #Indigenous stories, which offer memories of human habitation here during the last glacial maximum.

                                          Also, the Bering land bridge story falls apart when you find out about the century of archaeological evidence academia has vigorously suppressed.

                                          Read more in my new essay. 👇

                                          Link Preview Image
                                          What does ‘time immemorial’ really mean? - High Country News

                                          If you’ve seen the phrase time immemorial used repeatedly in Indigenous affairs reporting, there are some compelling reasons why.

                                          favicon

                                          High Country News (www.hcn.org)

                                          Germán A. Quimbayo RuizG This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Germán A. Quimbayo RuizG This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Germán A. Quimbayo Ruiz
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          @Toastie Nice essay, thanks. This reminds me, of course, the Chiribiquete findings in the Colombian Amazon. https://rtvcplay.co/peliculas-documentales/chiribiquete-un-viaje-a-la-memoria-ancestral-de-america

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                                          • Brandon WebsterB Brandon Webster shared this topic on

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