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Wandering Adventure Party

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  3. Thoughts on preemptively banning Gen-AI?

Thoughts on preemptively banning Gen-AI?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved rpg
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  • KichaeK Kichae

    if it’s being uploaded, then it means the community likes it

    That really isn’t how the Internet works at all. Someone uploading something just means that that person likes it. It’s not like they’re uploading based on the collective psychic demands of the rest of the community.

    T This user is from outside of this forum
    T This user is from outside of this forum
    tramort@programming.dev
    wrote last edited by
    #52

    thanks; that was a typo. I have edited it to upvoted, which is what I intended.

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    • KichaeK Kichae

      Believe it or not, you can release written content without professional art. Used to be done all the time. Deciding you want to skip ahead in your progress as a publisher and use tools that have been built off the back of unconsenting contributors doesn’t entitle you to someone’s platform.

      INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
      INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
      INeedMana
      wrote last edited by
      #53

      Yes, one can do that. But, probably because of how content ( in broad meaning) works, it’s not being done. That’s why I’m afraid such rule would mostly cut out the small-fries

      W 1 Reply Last reply
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      • SavvyWolfS SavvyWolf

        Public domain or stock images combined with an afternoon of Gimp/Krita.

        Had a friend who started with no experience and they managed to make some damn professional looking art for their playbook.

        INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
        INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
        INeedMana
        wrote last edited by
        #54

        I’m afraid they are an exception to what is happening

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • nocturne@slrpnk.netN This user is from outside of this forum
          nocturne@slrpnk.netN This user is from outside of this forum
          nocturne@slrpnk.net
          wrote last edited by
          #55

          I am fine with that.

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          • Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary

            Just because you generally need a cover image doesn't mean that it's good to support systems whose primary use case is to drive real artists into hiding.

            INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
            INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
            INeedMana
            wrote last edited by
            #56

            Sure. But wouldn’t such rule mean we dismiss also those who do bring something to the table but just try to get anyone’s attention?

            Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP 1 Reply Last reply
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            • INeedManaI INeedMana

              Sure. But wouldn’t such rule mean we dismiss also those who do bring something to the table but just try to get anyone’s attention?

              Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
              Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
              Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary
              wrote last edited by
              #57

              Not if they don't scam people to get that attention.

              INeedManaI 1 Reply Last reply
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              • SavvyWolfS SavvyWolf

                If someone doesn’t care enough about their product to actually do work on it, why should I care about looking at it? If I wanted to see AI generated slop, I’d go to one of the many megacorps that’ll generate it for me rather than paying some guy on Itch.io.

                INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                INeedMana
                wrote last edited by
                #58

                That is right. But that is not what all AIGen stuff is. If someone creates a cool adventure but uses AIGen to make their fluff box sound like a radio speaker because they lack the skills to make it so, is that a not caring enough?

                Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP 1 Reply Last reply
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                • Z ziggurat@jlai.lu

                  This is indeed the thing, there is a long road between using an AI powered spell checker, and a full AI generated game.

                  Let’s go further, if a volunteer uses their deepl subscription to translate an indie game they like (with the author’s permission) , and do a manual review afterward. The kind of stuff you can sometimes do for your player, is it AI slop?

                  INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                  INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                  INeedMana
                  wrote last edited by
                  #59

                  Exactly. I think that the issue is not black and white

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • INeedManaI INeedMana

                    That is right. But that is not what all AIGen stuff is. If someone creates a cool adventure but uses AIGen to make their fluff box sound like a radio speaker because they lack the skills to make it so, is that a not caring enough?

                    Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
                    Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
                    Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary
                    wrote last edited by
                    #60

                    Nope, it isn't.

                    Cheaters should never be allowed to prosper. It undermines the entire idea that creative work is of value, and will inevitably lead to a day when artists are seen as as much of a piece of scum on someone's shoe as cashiers are.

                    INeedManaI 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                      INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                      INeedMana
                      wrote last edited by
                      #61

                      That’s great. And it should be encouraged. But what about modern+ settings?

                      S 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary

                        Not if they don't scam people to get that attention.

                        INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                        INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                        INeedMana
                        wrote last edited by
                        #62

                        I’m afraid that’s a very high bar ATM

                        Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary

                          Nope, it isn't.

                          Cheaters should never be allowed to prosper. It undermines the entire idea that creative work is of value, and will inevitably lead to a day when artists are seen as as much of a piece of scum on someone's shoe as cashiers are.

                          INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                          INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                          INeedMana
                          wrote last edited by
                          #63

                          I think we are way past the point when creative work is enough

                          Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • INeedManaI INeedMana

                            I think we are way past the point when creative work is enough

                            Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
                            Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
                            Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary
                            wrote last edited by
                            #64

                            So you're arguing so hard to replace artists because you already don't value them?

                            INeedManaI 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • INeedManaI INeedMana

                              I’m afraid that’s a very high bar ATM

                              Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
                              Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP This user is from outside of this forum
                              Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary
                              wrote last edited by
                              #65

                              It's meant to be a high bar forever.

                              "Generative AI" is a scam perpetrated by people who hate artists, while envying their capacity to create art, while also not understanding what art really is. Period.

                              INeedManaI 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • INeedManaI INeedMana

                                That’s great. And it should be encouraged. But what about modern+ settings?

                                S This user is from outside of this forum
                                S This user is from outside of this forum
                                Skua
                                wrote last edited by
                                #66

                                Oh definitely, it’s not a universal solution. Just figured I’d mention a less obvious option that has helped me out before

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                                • J This user is from outside of this forum
                                  J This user is from outside of this forum
                                  justOnePersistentKbinPlease
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #67

                                  That is a straw man.

                                  I never said banning non open source. I equated corporate “AI” with the corporate practice of stealing open source projects.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • FaceDeerF This user is from outside of this forum
                                    FaceDeerF This user is from outside of this forum
                                    FaceDeer
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #68

                                    Well, there’s plenty of AI that isn’t “corporate” AI, and that is itself open. So the distinction you’re drawing isn’t going to put all AI on one side and all non-AI on the other side.

                                    Heck, there’s plenty of “corporate” RPGs that are near-universal staples of the hobby. D&D is owned by Hasbro, along with a lot of its tools.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • S sirblastalot@ttrpg.network

                                      I’ve been reading about the user revolt on the Twin Peaks subreddit calling for a ban on AI art. As best I can tell we don’t really have people posting AI stuff here yet, but I’m wondering if it would be a good idea to ban it before it becomes a problem. I’m soliciting feedback from y’all on this, please let me know what you prefer.

                                      Carl [he/him]C This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Carl [he/him]C This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Carl [he/him]
                                      wrote last edited by carl@hexbear.net
                                      #69

                                      I would propose a rule like this:

                                      Posts solely containing AI-generated content are banned. Posts that contain AI-generated content as part of a larger piece or project that is human-created are okay.

                                      This prevents the potential problem of people just posting their AI-generated character portraits and the feed getting flooded by those (which is the reason why I personally block multiple AI art communities), but does not prevent people who used AI generation in part to put together an adventure or something like that from sharing their work.

                                      S 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • M This user is from outside of this forum
                                        M This user is from outside of this forum
                                        magicshel@lemmy.zip
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #70

                                        You closed with “No AI.” It doesn’t feel like a straw man. It’s fine to say no corporate AI but that might be even harder to single out.

                                        I’m personally looking into domain specific fine tunes of small, open source models that can compete with larger models in at least one small area - specifically in roleplaying, though my interest is creating a chat bot to facilitate group gaming, not generating systems or art.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary

                                          So you're arguing so hard to replace artists because you already don't value them?

                                          INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                                          INeedManaI This user is from outside of this forum
                                          INeedMana
                                          wrote last edited by ineedmana@piefed.zip
                                          #71

                                          No. For one I don’t believe it will replace artists. What I expect is that we will never be able to hold wotc, hasbro, etc to this standard. Which means they’ll have an even higher advantage against one-person creators
                                          The artists working for big ones will be using AIGen to speed up their work. Same as using search engines to find info and references
                                          Creators for which the AIGenned cover is enough, won’t commission a real artist anyway
                                          I’m afraid that such rule here ( meaning we are social network, not the shop) would skew the scale towards the big ones - they’ll be getting more coverage, even here

                                          Pteryx the Puzzle SecretaryP 1 Reply Last reply
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