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  3. I apologize for the annoyance and concern I may have caused many people with my recent conversation with someone through quoting.

I apologize for the annoyance and concern I may have caused many people with my recent conversation with someone through quoting.

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  • mikotoM mikoto

    So, there is still a risk of miscommunication between people/communities who have not established a common understanding of what sort of interaction "quote" implies, as I had thoughtlessly committed.

    I tried to behave appropriately based on a generally shared understanding of the quote feature in a conversation two days ago.
    However there was likely a difference of opinion between me and the other person regarding the its meaning. I cannot (yet) state that either view is correct, and I would like to reaffirm the principle that the perceptions of minorities should also be equally respected.
    (It would be possible to include guidelines regarding quotes in the server rules, but this is probably not necessary currently.)

    mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
    mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
    mikoto
    wrote last edited by
    #3

    2) form, then practice
    The functions of media (including Quote) is basically formal. And the fact that a post meets the formal requirements of the feature may not be enough to justify the social impact of it.
    There is also the phase of practical, substantial, and individual value judgment about what meaning the quote conveys. Appropriateness can be judged not only in terms of formal appropriateness but also in terms of substance. In the latter sense, I should have been more careful.

    mikotoM 1 Reply Last reply
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    • mikotoM mikoto

      2) form, then practice
      The functions of media (including Quote) is basically formal. And the fact that a post meets the formal requirements of the feature may not be enough to justify the social impact of it.
      There is also the phase of practical, substantial, and individual value judgment about what meaning the quote conveys. Appropriateness can be judged not only in terms of formal appropriateness but also in terms of substance. In the latter sense, I should have been more careful.

      mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
      mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
      mikoto
      wrote last edited by
      #4

      Now I would like to overview the occurrence in this individual case.
      I quoted a person's some linguistic activity that I happened to see in my timeline, and I wrote the cultural background of the usage.
      My post could certainly have had an effect similar to the so-called reply guy or sharkey (just as someone kindly commented), or there is room for it to be perceived that way, aside from the issue of the difference between quote or reply.
      Of course I could have avoided notifying the person by simply stating the URL of the quoted post instead of the formal quoting feature.
      ...And the person felt probably hurt by that.

      mikotoM neatcheeN 2 Replies Last reply
      0
      • mikotoM mikoto

        I apologize for the annoyance and concern I may have caused many people with my recent conversation with someone through quoting. This gave me a grave lesson, so I would like to express my thoughts publicly regarding the Quote feature, its practice, and my personality.

        1) Understanding of the Quotation
        I must admit that there is still no sufficient social consensus on what the official quotation means. The problems have been widely discussed before the implementation such as
        - excessive sharing;
        - concern about being shared with additional critical context that the quoted person didn't intend;
        - offensive use.
        Along with these points, we are still experimenting with the differences between quotes, URL references, and replies.

        さよなら皆さんS This user is from outside of this forum
        さよなら皆さんS This user is from outside of this forum
        さよなら皆さん
        wrote last edited by
        #5

        @mikoto that user thought you were wrong regarding something about zodiacs and “our culture” from what I saw of that thread not so much the quote feature itself. *shrugs* basically accusing you of being a nihonjinron-bro lol

        mikotoM 1 Reply Last reply
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        • mikotoM mikoto

          Now I would like to overview the occurrence in this individual case.
          I quoted a person's some linguistic activity that I happened to see in my timeline, and I wrote the cultural background of the usage.
          My post could certainly have had an effect similar to the so-called reply guy or sharkey (just as someone kindly commented), or there is room for it to be perceived that way, aside from the issue of the difference between quote or reply.
          Of course I could have avoided notifying the person by simply stating the URL of the quoted post instead of the formal quoting feature.
          ...And the person felt probably hurt by that.

          mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
          mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
          mikoto
          wrote last edited by
          #6

          tbh it is difficult for me to tell that the quoted person behaved entirely reasonably, either. But I can understand that the sudden, lengthy mention (whether a quote or a reply) might have provoked them, and I could have anticipated this to occur to some extent.
          Of course, everyone may get nervous temporarily or permanently, and we should be considerate of each other's delicacy and their own sense of dignity, and be tolerant of other's gaffes. (I hope you all will be tolerant of me too!)

          I still don't have any ill will toward the other person, though it was a difficult conversation and I suppose that I'd better not communicate directly with them anymore.

          mikotoM 1 Reply Last reply
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          • mikotoM mikoto

            Now I would like to overview the occurrence in this individual case.
            I quoted a person's some linguistic activity that I happened to see in my timeline, and I wrote the cultural background of the usage.
            My post could certainly have had an effect similar to the so-called reply guy or sharkey (just as someone kindly commented), or there is room for it to be perceived that way, aside from the issue of the difference between quote or reply.
            Of course I could have avoided notifying the person by simply stating the URL of the quoted post instead of the formal quoting feature.
            ...And the person felt probably hurt by that.

            neatcheeN This user is from outside of this forum
            neatcheeN This user is from outside of this forum
            neatchee
            wrote last edited by
            #7

            @mikoto after interacting with that individual directly, I don't believe they were hurt by it. I believe they feel themselves to be an authority on all things Asia and are intolerant of even the smallest errors or appearance of anyone else having their own thoughts that they haven't approved of.

            That individual has a very obvious "main character" syndrome problem. And a horrible, combative attitude.

            In this case I think the simple answer is just to block the offender and move on.

            Based on their responses to both of us they've already been suspended from this server. Their desire to start fights isn't welcome in our community 💜

            mikotoM 1 Reply Last reply
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            • さよなら皆さんS さよなら皆さん

              @mikoto that user thought you were wrong regarding something about zodiacs and “our culture” from what I saw of that thread not so much the quote feature itself. *shrugs* basically accusing you of being a nihonjinron-bro lol

              mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
              mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
              mikoto
              wrote last edited by
              #8

              @sayonaraminasan Oh, I am grateful for your kind suggestion.
              Actually I will not communicate with them anymore and I think the disagreement on the specific issue of zodiac can no longer be resolved. So I would like to concentrate on the general issues on how Quote works, which may be more beneficial to everyone.

              さよなら皆さんS 1 Reply Last reply
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              • neatcheeN neatchee

                @mikoto after interacting with that individual directly, I don't believe they were hurt by it. I believe they feel themselves to be an authority on all things Asia and are intolerant of even the smallest errors or appearance of anyone else having their own thoughts that they haven't approved of.

                That individual has a very obvious "main character" syndrome problem. And a horrible, combative attitude.

                In this case I think the simple answer is just to block the offender and move on.

                Based on their responses to both of us they've already been suspended from this server. Their desire to start fights isn't welcome in our community 💜

                mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
                mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
                mikoto
                wrote last edited by
                #9

                @neatchee I appreciate your considerate suggestion and I am so sorry for taking up your time again.
                I blocked them just after they started posting something offensive to me. I am not sure whether their sense of pride is hurt, and whether their self-evaluation is appropriate socially and culturally, though.
                Now I would like to work on the problem of the significance and effects of quotation, which hopefully be helpful for everyone as one of the failure cases. (sigh)

                neatcheeN 1 Reply Last reply
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                • mikotoM mikoto

                  @sayonaraminasan Oh, I am grateful for your kind suggestion.
                  Actually I will not communicate with them anymore and I think the disagreement on the specific issue of zodiac can no longer be resolved. So I would like to concentrate on the general issues on how Quote works, which may be more beneficial to everyone.

                  さよなら皆さんS This user is from outside of this forum
                  さよなら皆さんS This user is from outside of this forum
                  さよなら皆さん
                  wrote last edited by
                  #10

                  @mikoto indeed, I would have hit the block button at the first sight of that reply myself It was definitely not a good faith argument. I’m all for debate; I love debates but when people let their emotions get involved then the ad hominem attacks start and a constructive conversation can no longer be had. You played your cards well in this situation from how I see it.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • mikotoM mikoto

                    tbh it is difficult for me to tell that the quoted person behaved entirely reasonably, either. But I can understand that the sudden, lengthy mention (whether a quote or a reply) might have provoked them, and I could have anticipated this to occur to some extent.
                    Of course, everyone may get nervous temporarily or permanently, and we should be considerate of each other's delicacy and their own sense of dignity, and be tolerant of other's gaffes. (I hope you all will be tolerant of me too!)

                    I still don't have any ill will toward the other person, though it was a difficult conversation and I suppose that I'd better not communicate directly with them anymore.

                    mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
                    mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
                    mikoto
                    wrote last edited by
                    #11

                    I have received a variety of comments from many people regarding this case.
                    Some of them are fair and convincing criticisms of my actions, while others have thankfully offered positive feedback about my behavior.
                    In any case, social media isn't just about one-on-one conversations; it's basically many-to-many communication through each person's own timeline. In other words, a public society exists here.
                    I realized that I have been greatly helped by the FAIRNESS of the people in this online community, and I am grateful that this is a place where we can trust each other's fairness.

                    mikotoM 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • mikotoM mikoto

                      @neatchee I appreciate your considerate suggestion and I am so sorry for taking up your time again.
                      I blocked them just after they started posting something offensive to me. I am not sure whether their sense of pride is hurt, and whether their self-evaluation is appropriate socially and culturally, though.
                      Now I would like to work on the problem of the significance and effects of quotation, which hopefully be helpful for everyone as one of the failure cases. (sigh)

                      neatcheeN This user is from outside of this forum
                      neatcheeN This user is from outside of this forum
                      neatchee
                      wrote last edited by
                      #12

                      @mikoto I respect this a lot. But I will caution that you cannot solve for assholes 😛 Crappy people will always be crappy, no matter how hard we try to design systems perfectly. My preferred solution is to give people the tools to filter out the bad people 🙂

                      One or two loud bad attitudes shouldn't dictate feature design 😄

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • mikotoM mikoto

                        I have received a variety of comments from many people regarding this case.
                        Some of them are fair and convincing criticisms of my actions, while others have thankfully offered positive feedback about my behavior.
                        In any case, social media isn't just about one-on-one conversations; it's basically many-to-many communication through each person's own timeline. In other words, a public society exists here.
                        I realized that I have been greatly helped by the FAIRNESS of the people in this online community, and I am grateful that this is a place where we can trust each other's fairness.

                        mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
                        mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
                        mikoto
                        wrote last edited by
                        #13

                        3?) Here, I would like to talk about my own temperament and style.
                        My English may probably seem quite stiff. That is not because I am cold and aloof, but simply because I know very little frank English. For example, I can hardly use modern slang.
                        I have to keep on the (to-be-)formal and awkward English in order not to accidentally use impolite expressions though I am trying to be as kind and friendly as possible in my communication here.

                        I have to consult dictionaries for almost every post regarding synonyms, prepositions, countability of nouns, etc. and I often examine the text by automatic translation before posting so that the post doesn't unintentionally have some inappropriate meaning or become absurd. English learner!

                        mikotoM 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • mikotoM mikoto

                          3?) Here, I would like to talk about my own temperament and style.
                          My English may probably seem quite stiff. That is not because I am cold and aloof, but simply because I know very little frank English. For example, I can hardly use modern slang.
                          I have to keep on the (to-be-)formal and awkward English in order not to accidentally use impolite expressions though I am trying to be as kind and friendly as possible in my communication here.

                          I have to consult dictionaries for almost every post regarding synonyms, prepositions, countability of nouns, etc. and I often examine the text by automatic translation before posting so that the post doesn't unintentionally have some inappropriate meaning or become absurd. English learner!

                          mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
                          mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
                          mikoto
                          wrote last edited by
                          #14

                          I am also an old-fashioned Japanese-style nerd.
                          The basis of my interests and communication tools are useful information about hobby and culture rather than personal, everyday emotions. I live on information, living by and through the content of my hobbies. My identity is based not on "who I am," but on "what hobbies I choose, what knowledge I possess, and what aesthetic judgments I make."

                          However, this characteristic can possibly appear to be, or act as, an unilateral, impersonal, and ostentatious talk, which may annoy others. This can especially apply when talking about Japanese culture.

                          mikotoM 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • mikotoM mikoto

                            I am also an old-fashioned Japanese-style nerd.
                            The basis of my interests and communication tools are useful information about hobby and culture rather than personal, everyday emotions. I live on information, living by and through the content of my hobbies. My identity is based not on "who I am," but on "what hobbies I choose, what knowledge I possess, and what aesthetic judgments I make."

                            However, this characteristic can possibly appear to be, or act as, an unilateral, impersonal, and ostentatious talk, which may annoy others. This can especially apply when talking about Japanese culture.

                            mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
                            mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
                            mikoto
                            wrote last edited by
                            #15

                            Fortunately I am in a server where many people love various kinds of contents that are basically connected to the country and culture I belong to. Therefore I may thoughtlessly have a higher-than-average expectation that talking about my own culture will be well-received.
                            I am trying not to take it for granted and not to fall into the trap of xxxxxplaining, but if the readers feel I am being pushy or authoritative, please feel free to criticize or remove me.
                            I hope I can continue to talk about anything interesting for me endlessly and to share them with the friends here! Thank you!

                            NullN 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • mikotoM mikoto

                              Fortunately I am in a server where many people love various kinds of contents that are basically connected to the country and culture I belong to. Therefore I may thoughtlessly have a higher-than-average expectation that talking about my own culture will be well-received.
                              I am trying not to take it for granted and not to fall into the trap of xxxxxplaining, but if the readers feel I am being pushy or authoritative, please feel free to criticize or remove me.
                              I hope I can continue to talk about anything interesting for me endlessly and to share them with the friends here! Thank you!

                              NullN This user is from outside of this forum
                              NullN This user is from outside of this forum
                              Null
                              wrote last edited by
                              #16

                              @mikoto@urusai.social I’ll repeat again that the incident in question involved someone who assumed bad faith on your part and thus overreacted (imo). It’s not bad to reflect and muse on quotations, but don’t knock your head too hard on it.

                              On another note; I don’t have a lot of patience for the people on fedi who have little understanding about public audiences and differing communication styles, and treat everyone who writes a comment that isn’t full throated agreement or something they wanted to read as a personal offense. They lack emotional maturity.

                              KichaeK 1 Reply Last reply
                              1
                              • NullN Null

                                @mikoto@urusai.social I’ll repeat again that the incident in question involved someone who assumed bad faith on your part and thus overreacted (imo). It’s not bad to reflect and muse on quotations, but don’t knock your head too hard on it.

                                On another note; I don’t have a lot of patience for the people on fedi who have little understanding about public audiences and differing communication styles, and treat everyone who writes a comment that isn’t full throated agreement or something they wanted to read as a personal offense. They lack emotional maturity.

                                KichaeK Offline
                                KichaeK Offline
                                Kichae
                                Forum Master
                                wrote last edited by
                                #17

                                Null This is a space with a large oversampling of people who have suffered abuse on centralized platforms both want to be able to speak publicly but also have total control over who can hear them.

                                The lack of emotional maturity is systemic.

                                mikotoM 1 Reply Last reply
                                1
                                • KichaeK Kichae

                                  Null This is a space with a large oversampling of people who have suffered abuse on centralized platforms both want to be able to speak publicly but also have total control over who can hear them.

                                  The lack of emotional maturity is systemic.

                                  mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
                                  mikotoM This user is from outside of this forum
                                  mikoto
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #18

                                  @kichae @NullNowhere
                                  Oh, I was wiring the similar thing as Kichae-san. The fundamental problem may be not so much a individual issue of personal maturity, but rather the fact that people are being subjected to a great deal of social oppression and threat to their dignity. Although I personally love discussion that helps me deepen my understand, I have learned this time that some people have a tendency of feeling highly burdensome to be exposed to unexpected opinions.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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