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  3. Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved PC Gaming
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  • B bastion@feddit.nl

    Yeah. Steam is fucking solid.

    I This user is from outside of this forum
    I This user is from outside of this forum
    ironbird@lemmy.world
    wrote last edited by
    #147

    step aside jesus, we have a new savior and his name is gaben

    B 1 Reply Last reply
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    • W wellheh@lemmy.sdf.org

      You make it sound like drm didn’t exist before steam or like steam isn’t a form of drm itself. Old drm was more basic and far less nefarious, like entering a cd key or codes in your manual. This later escalated to online activated cd keys. At the very least, these forms of drm didn’t run all the time like steam did- I remember steam getting huge pushback (from myself included) because it ran like absolute dogshit. Later forms of drm got worse with checks in the discs that collected data on your pc (securom, anyone?). Steam did a lot of good things but it did not erase drm- it merely created another form of it (I.e. You no longer own your games, you are buying licenses they can revoke at any time)

      N This user is from outside of this forum
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      nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      wrote last edited by
      #148

      I remember CD keys but that’s about it

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • I ironbird@lemmy.world

        step aside jesus, we have a new savior and his name is gaben

        B This user is from outside of this forum
        B This user is from outside of this forum
        bastion@feddit.nl
        wrote last edited by
        #149

        Benevolent dictators are great, but like pet goldfish, they eventually die, and the next fish might be an asshole you have to flush down the toilet.

        This is intentionally word salad.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • T thirdconsul@lemmy.ml

          Exclusives are a bastard child of oligopoly, where the distribution platform has more power than the publisher.

          Before Steam physical games were NEVER sold only in ToysR, they were sold in all shops.

          tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
          tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
          tattorack@lemmy.world
          wrote last edited by
          #150

          No, that’s pretty wrong. There absolutely were exclusive store releases, or temporary releases where one store would get a certain game a whole month early.

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          • S shaggysnacks@lemmy.myserv.one

            And while many like our Steam benevolent (almost) monopoly, I do wonder how would the market look like if we had 20 competing companies that cannot gain more than 5% of the market share. Can you imagine the competition between them and how would that benefit us, the consumer?

            More comptetion wouldn’t just benefit consumers, it would benefit devs. A dev could shop their game around go with a store front that suits their needs better.

            tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
            tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
            tattorack@lemmy.world
            wrote last edited by
            #151

            If I’m going to need to install several different clients/launcher on my computer just to keep up with where games get published, I’ll just resort to piracy.

            Being forced to install some shitty client to run a specific game has been a deal breaker for me in the past. And there is no guarantee that other “competing” platforms will bother making Linux versions of their clients.

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            • M Mwa

              i think personally Steam’s/Valve’s dominance is really good here’s why:

              • Improving Linux gaming,improving Wine and DXVK for gaming,so you dont rely on Microsoft for your OS.
              • Great client(i like the: inbuilt Chromium based browser,Community features)
              • Not so awful and maybe simple DRM methods(eg, needing the Steam client doesnt tank the performance that much,compared to something like denuvo which i think makes modding impossible,needs consistent internet connection,and tanks the game’s fps alot )
              • I can buy with cash giftcard to buy games(I wish GOG had that)
              • Workshop for modding on supported games.(ik some games have workshop and dont let you mod everything)
              • Makes/has good games(Half-life 2 is the best game i ever played)

              but the bad things:

              • Steam Client is still 32 bit and Steam doesnt target ARM(E,G. For like M1+ macs,those need rosetta )
              • third party clients arent a option
              • You dont own anything you buy on Steam.
              • Having the Steam client open at all times(ik not all games have this, but i assume CEF based Steam will lower the performance like slightly)
              • TF2 neglect
              • lootboxes/battle pass in some games(i am aware Valve was the first company to have a battle pass and fortnite popularized it)
                alright thats what i think of the Good and bad of Valve/Steam

              Edit: Fixed Paragraph break.

              Tlaloc_TemporalT This user is from outside of this forum
              Tlaloc_TemporalT This user is from outside of this forum
              Tlaloc_Temporal
              wrote last edited by
              #152

              I think you switched to cons without saying.

              I admit I haven’t tried very many, but I think you can launch any steam app “normally” without steam running. If you can find the executable or startup script, you can just point a shortcut to it. Some games will need Steam Services to run, but it’s not blocked or anything.

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              • M mindbleach@sh.itjust.works

                None of that is what defines a monopoly.

                There’s only one store that matters. They have unthreatened supermajority marketshare. Customers go there by default - sometimes exclusively. Developers can sell there, or they’re basically fucked.

                What you’re concerned about are anti-competitive practices. But some businesses don’t need those, to lack any relevant competition. It can just happen. They didn’t do anything wrong. They’re still monopolies.

                F This user is from outside of this forum
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                fleur_@lemmynsfw.com
                wrote last edited by
                #153

                If they’re not doing anything wrong what’s the problem

                M 1 Reply Last reply
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                • nuko147@lemmy.worldN nuko147@lemmy.world

                  Steam kinda killed gaming piracy for many. Hope they won’t go the Netflix way in the future.

                  F This user is from outside of this forum
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                  fleur_@lemmynsfw.com
                  wrote last edited by
                  #154

                  They did for me, then my cost of living went up along with the cost of games. Now I’ll only buy games that I intend to play multiplayer

                  nuko147@lemmy.worldN 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • F fleur_@lemmynsfw.com

                    If they’re not doing anything wrong what’s the problem

                    M This user is from outside of this forum
                    M This user is from outside of this forum
                    mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
                    wrote last edited by
                    #155

                    Maybe there isn’t one.

                    This is what I’m talking about: people think monopoly = bad, so if I say Valve has a monopoly, I must want them burned to the ground. Nah. They’re mostly fine. Having only one good option is precarious, but it is still a good option. For now.

                    But they’re still a monopoly. We should say so, because it’s true, and important. It shapes the entire PC gaming market.

                    F 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • Tlaloc_TemporalT Tlaloc_Temporal

                      I think you switched to cons without saying.

                      I admit I haven’t tried very many, but I think you can launch any steam app “normally” without steam running. If you can find the executable or startup script, you can just point a shortcut to it. Some games will need Steam Services to run, but it’s not blocked or anything.

                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                      mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
                      wrote last edited by
                      #156

                      There’s a ‘but the bad things’ buried in the middle, desperately wanting a line break.

                      I did the same thing initially and tried re-reading it as sass. Especially if “TF2 neglect” was considered positive.

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                      • R ryathal@sh.itjust.works

                        Honestly 20 different companies would probably suck for the consumer. That’s 20 different storefronts to compare, 20 different libraries to manage, potentially 20 different sets of logins, 20 sources of data breaches. It’s unlikely they would adopt an open standard to allow a shared library. Maybe you have a 21st company that makes a product like heroic launcher. You’d likely run into regionality issues where a particular store is unavailable, so you may not be able to play purchased games. You would have all sorts of odd exclusive dlc and pre order bonuses so a cosmetic item you like could be locked to a store you haven’t used. Multiplayer likely wouldn’t be global cross play between all companies, you likely get some set of 20 companies working together for multiplayer. Some games may develop a good scene available to a single store, requiring a game to be repurchased. Exclusives or timed exclusives would be annoying to track, as each store would likely have different catalogs.

                        Tlaloc_TemporalT This user is from outside of this forum
                        Tlaloc_TemporalT This user is from outside of this forum
                        Tlaloc_Temporal
                        wrote last edited by
                        #157

                        I think this amount of competition could be good if individual competitors were allowed to fail. All the parts that build vendor lock-in would need to be removed, and more things would need to be interoperable, but it could be quite good and even specialised.

                        Each storefront could live or die independent of each library and each game service. If one company tried to squeeze money from users, they could just take their elsewhere, without worrying about losing access to games or connections to friends.

                        Of course no company would create such a system voluntarily, most depend on monopolistic practices to survive. It would take monopoly busting-policy or a foss group to even begin such a thing.

                        R 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • R ryathal@sh.itjust.works

                          That’s far to generous to other companies, they were far more like the WiiU.

                          I Cast FistI This user is from outside of this forum
                          I Cast FistI This user is from outside of this forum
                          I Cast Fist
                          wrote last edited by
                          #158

                          I was thinking more along the lines of being proud of shit features that consumers despise, to the point it becomes an ad for your main competitor, like the PS4 “how to share a game with a friend” video

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • Tlaloc_TemporalT Tlaloc_Temporal

                            I think this amount of competition could be good if individual competitors were allowed to fail. All the parts that build vendor lock-in would need to be removed, and more things would need to be interoperable, but it could be quite good and even specialised.

                            Each storefront could live or die independent of each library and each game service. If one company tried to squeeze money from users, they could just take their elsewhere, without worrying about losing access to games or connections to friends.

                            Of course no company would create such a system voluntarily, most depend on monopolistic practices to survive. It would take monopoly busting-policy or a foss group to even begin such a thing.

                            R This user is from outside of this forum
                            R This user is from outside of this forum
                            ryathal@sh.itjust.works
                            wrote last edited by
                            #159

                            That would require real ownership which is unlikely to ever happen. Company failures more likely just means loss of any library from them.

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • Tlaloc_TemporalT Tlaloc_Temporal

                              I think you switched to cons without saying.

                              I admit I haven’t tried very many, but I think you can launch any steam app “normally” without steam running. If you can find the executable or startup script, you can just point a shortcut to it. Some games will need Steam Services to run, but it’s not blocked or anything.

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                              J This user is from outside of this forum
                              jandrodelsol@lemmy.world
                              wrote last edited by
                              #160

                              they said it but there’s not a paragraph break do it’s easy to miss

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • F fleur_@lemmynsfw.com

                                They did for me, then my cost of living went up along with the cost of games. Now I’ll only buy games that I intend to play multiplayer

                                nuko147@lemmy.worldN This user is from outside of this forum
                                nuko147@lemmy.worldN This user is from outside of this forum
                                nuko147@lemmy.world
                                wrote last edited by
                                #161

                                For me cost of living went up but cost of games down. I mostly play indie games now since i find big AAA games not that interesting with one maybe two exceptions per year.

                                F 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • M mindbleach@sh.itjust.works

                                  Maybe there isn’t one.

                                  This is what I’m talking about: people think monopoly = bad, so if I say Valve has a monopoly, I must want them burned to the ground. Nah. They’re mostly fine. Having only one good option is precarious, but it is still a good option. For now.

                                  But they’re still a monopoly. We should say so, because it’s true, and important. It shapes the entire PC gaming market.

                                  F This user is from outside of this forum
                                  F This user is from outside of this forum
                                  fleur_@lemmynsfw.com
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #162

                                  Fair enough

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • nuko147@lemmy.worldN nuko147@lemmy.world

                                    For me cost of living went up but cost of games down. I mostly play indie games now since i find big AAA games not that interesting with one maybe two exceptions per year.

                                    F This user is from outside of this forum
                                    F This user is from outside of this forum
                                    fleur_@lemmynsfw.com
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #163

                                    Depends on what games you play. I play lots of studio games and don’t play a lot of indies. Now I just pirate. To paraphrase a wise man “this may or may not technically be legal… But 105aud for a new video game is a straight up crime”

                                    nuko147@lemmy.worldN 1 Reply Last reply
                                    1
                                    • F fleur_@lemmynsfw.com

                                      Depends on what games you play. I play lots of studio games and don’t play a lot of indies. Now I just pirate. To paraphrase a wise man “this may or may not technically be legal… But 105aud for a new video game is a straight up crime”

                                      nuko147@lemmy.worldN This user is from outside of this forum
                                      nuko147@lemmy.worldN This user is from outside of this forum
                                      nuko147@lemmy.world
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #164

                                      Yeah, it sucks. A major reason that I abandoned Nintendo’s Switch 2, and returned to PC after playing in Switch for some years. I used to pay 30-50€ for AAA, but they wanted people to jump to 70-80€.

                                      F 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • nuko147@lemmy.worldN nuko147@lemmy.world

                                        Yeah, it sucks. A major reason that I abandoned Nintendo’s Switch 2, and returned to PC after playing in Switch for some years. I used to pay 30-50€ for AAA, but they wanted people to jump to 70-80€.

                                        F This user is from outside of this forum
                                        F This user is from outside of this forum
                                        fleur_@lemmynsfw.com
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #165

                                        Yeah, from what I’ve heard Nintendo earns their pricetag by making some of the best games you can buy. That being said they are essentially luxury products at this point and just because they’ve earned the pricetag, doesn’t mean I can afford it.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • Tlaloc_TemporalT Tlaloc_Temporal

                                          I think you switched to cons without saying.

                                          I admit I haven’t tried very many, but I think you can launch any steam app “normally” without steam running. If you can find the executable or startup script, you can just point a shortcut to it. Some games will need Steam Services to run, but it’s not blocked or anything.

                                          M This user is from outside of this forum
                                          M This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Mwa
                                          wrote last edited by mwa@thelemmy.club
                                          #166

                                          I admit I haven’t tried very many, but I think you can launch any steam app “normally” without steam running. If you can find the executable or startup script, you can just point a shortcut to it. Some games will need Steam Services to run, but it’s not blocked or anything.

                                          I think i mentioned this,? but there are Steam games that dont let you use it without having the client open, but yeah there are Steam games that work without the client.

                                          I think you switched to cons without saying.

                                          Its there but i didnt have a line break.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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