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  3. Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

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  • F This user is from outside of this forum
    F This user is from outside of this forum
    frongt@lemmy.zip
    wrote last edited by
    #8

    Hmm. The founder’s son usually just squeezes the company for profit.

    D G 2 Replies Last reply
    17
    • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
      This post did not contain any content.
      Link Preview Image
      Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

      While many accuse Valve of monopolising the PC gaming market, others argue that Steam\'s dominance is simply the result of doing things right.

      favicon

      Gamereactor UK (www.gamereactor.eu)

      M This user is from outside of this forum
      M This user is from outside of this forum
      mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
      wrote last edited by
      #9

      So we’re acknowledging it’s a monopoly? Cool. Defense is still an acknowledgement. I’ve had the weirdest goddamn arguments with people insisting they’d never shop anywhere else, and if games aren’t on there it’s their own fault they’re doomed… but how dare anyone use the m-word! Obviously that can only mean one seller with absolute control, like how Standard Oil owned all 85% of the market.

      kairubyte@lemmy.dbzer0.comK VinnyboilerV 2 Replies Last reply
      7
      • P psionicsickness@reddthat.com

        And it will last til Gabe dies. Then I guarantee it enshittifes so fast it will make your head spin.

        M This user is from outside of this forum
        M This user is from outside of this forum
        magic_lobster_party
        wrote last edited by
        #10

        As long Valve doesn’t become publicly traded they will be fine. The problems start when companies optimize for shareholder value rather than customer value.

        1 Reply Last reply
        67
        • cosmicpancake@sh.itjust.worksC cosmicpancake@sh.itjust.works

          Larian isn’t wrong, Steam mostly works. Stable client, refunds, workshop, Proton, massive userbase and tools that actually help developers and players. A lot of other stores still feel half-baked next to that.

          But deserved != harmless. Valve has way too much power, discovery is a dumpster fire, and their communication and policy decisions can be arbitrary. Dominance like that rewards sloppiness and makes it harder for better alternatives to gain traction.

          So yeah, Steam earned its place, but I do not want any one company owning PC gaming. Competition keeps them honest, and right now we need more real contenders, not just storefronts throwing money at exclusives.

          fizz@lemmy.nzF This user is from outside of this forum
          fizz@lemmy.nzF This user is from outside of this forum
          fizz@lemmy.nz
          wrote last edited by
          #11

          Is discovery a dumpster fire? I mean sure it could be better but I dont think its a dumpster fire. It seems there are constantly new small team indie games doing wild numbers on the platform. If discovery was truely bad we would be seeing the charts dominated by big studios.

          D S S 3 Replies Last reply
          87
          • M mindbleach@sh.itjust.works

            So we’re acknowledging it’s a monopoly? Cool. Defense is still an acknowledgement. I’ve had the weirdest goddamn arguments with people insisting they’d never shop anywhere else, and if games aren’t on there it’s their own fault they’re doomed… but how dare anyone use the m-word! Obviously that can only mean one seller with absolute control, like how Standard Oil owned all 85% of the market.

            kairubyte@lemmy.dbzer0.comK This user is from outside of this forum
            kairubyte@lemmy.dbzer0.comK This user is from outside of this forum
            kairubyte@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            wrote last edited by
            #12

            The question is, is it a monopoly because they are doing something to force their way into that position, or does every other offering just suck?

            And what is the solution to said monopoly? Because as far as I can tell, the only way to give the other shitty stores a chance is to deliberately make the steam experience worse.

            There’s also the question of if this is even a real problem. For instance, if two people are trying to sell lemonade on their street, and one is just throwing a lukewarm cup of haphazardly crushed lemons at you for $2, and the other is charging $3 but giving you a cool glass of carefully squeezed lemons… the second one may have a monopoly, but that’s because the first isn’t competent. Should the second be punished in some way because of that?

            NeshuraN M grrgyle@slrpnk.netG 3 Replies Last reply
            26
            • cosmicpancake@sh.itjust.worksC cosmicpancake@sh.itjust.works

              Larian isn’t wrong, Steam mostly works. Stable client, refunds, workshop, Proton, massive userbase and tools that actually help developers and players. A lot of other stores still feel half-baked next to that.

              But deserved != harmless. Valve has way too much power, discovery is a dumpster fire, and their communication and policy decisions can be arbitrary. Dominance like that rewards sloppiness and makes it harder for better alternatives to gain traction.

              So yeah, Steam earned its place, but I do not want any one company owning PC gaming. Competition keeps them honest, and right now we need more real contenders, not just storefronts throwing money at exclusives.

              K This user is from outside of this forum
              K This user is from outside of this forum
              karma_will_f_you_up@discuss.tchncs.de
              wrote last edited by
              #13

              You’re saying a lot of words as fact for what is an opinion.

              Watch your determinism.

              1 Reply Last reply
              2
              • F frongt@lemmy.zip

                Hmm. The founder’s son usually just squeezes the company for profit.

                D This user is from outside of this forum
                D This user is from outside of this forum
                dukemirage@lemmy.world
                wrote last edited by
                #14

                citation needed

                S 1 Reply Last reply
                17
                • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                  This post did not contain any content.
                  Link Preview Image
                  Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

                  While many accuse Valve of monopolising the PC gaming market, others argue that Steam\'s dominance is simply the result of doing things right.

                  favicon

                  Gamereactor UK (www.gamereactor.eu)

                  M This user is from outside of this forum
                  M This user is from outside of this forum
                  magic_lobster_party
                  wrote last edited by
                  #15

                  People feel good about Valve because they don’t rely on anti consumer behavior. It does what I want and doesn’t enforce me on other crap.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  16
                  • T tommysoda@lemmy.world

                    I feel like they’ve earned it because they’ve put in the most work. They are the best in the game because they make the user experience the best there is. EA, Ubisoft, and Microsoft have/had their own storefronts or launchers but they are clunky and unpleasant to deal with and the only benefits they had were exclusives. They’ve never put any effort into user experience and were mainly doing it to make themselves more money and it definitely showed. The only one that’s ever been a real competitor is Epic Launcher. And while it has gotten better over the years, the user experience is still not anywhere near Steam. And even now the Epic Launcher is still unpleasant to deal with in a lot of cases unless you just use it to play Fortnite.

                    With Steam everything just works and is basically seamless. Not only that, before Steam the modding community for most games had an immense learning curve and most people just avoided it save for Minecraft. And as far as I can tell you can’t even mod games you buy on the Microsoft Store because their file structure is atrocious.

                    The only storefront I wish was better/more popular was GOG. It’s not bad and has a lot of benefits (Like no DRM and offline installers), but Steam just makes everything so easy it’s hard not to get stuck with them once you’ve started.

                    D This user is from outside of this forum
                    D This user is from outside of this forum
                    dukemirage@lemmy.world
                    wrote last edited by
                    #16

                    The only storefront I wish was better/more popular was GOG. It’s not bad and has a lot of benefits (Like no DRM and offline installers), but Steam just makes everything so easy it’s hard not to get stuck with them once you’ve started.

                    Well the no DRM/offline installer part is the most important part. I buy a game, I download and install it. If I need more features I may be better off with Steam anyway.

                    Tywèle [she|her]T 1 Reply Last reply
                    9
                    • kairubyte@lemmy.dbzer0.comK kairubyte@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                      The question is, is it a monopoly because they are doing something to force their way into that position, or does every other offering just suck?

                      And what is the solution to said monopoly? Because as far as I can tell, the only way to give the other shitty stores a chance is to deliberately make the steam experience worse.

                      There’s also the question of if this is even a real problem. For instance, if two people are trying to sell lemonade on their street, and one is just throwing a lukewarm cup of haphazardly crushed lemons at you for $2, and the other is charging $3 but giving you a cool glass of carefully squeezed lemons… the second one may have a monopoly, but that’s because the first isn’t competent. Should the second be punished in some way because of that?

                      NeshuraN This user is from outside of this forum
                      NeshuraN This user is from outside of this forum
                      Neshura
                      wrote last edited by
                      #17

                      There should be case studies about the ineptitude of competing stores. A small handful aside who have found a niche and serve it well (itch.io and GOG come to mind) the other stores just dish out a store front that is under-cooked for what is there and lacking features beyond that and then are surprised when people prefer Steam.

                      For example I’m not aware of a Workshop style system in any other store, so any game that features community made content will be a better experience on Steam.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      9
                      • fizz@lemmy.nzF fizz@lemmy.nz

                        Is discovery a dumpster fire? I mean sure it could be better but I dont think its a dumpster fire. It seems there are constantly new small team indie games doing wild numbers on the platform. If discovery was truely bad we would be seeing the charts dominated by big studios.

                        D This user is from outside of this forum
                        D This user is from outside of this forum
                        deconceptualist@leminal.space
                        wrote last edited by
                        #18

                        The regular Next Fests have probably been the single best thing for game discovery I’ve found in s long time. Nothing beats an actual hands-on demo for deciding if I’ll wishlist a game.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        48
                        • yakko@feddit.ukY This user is from outside of this forum
                          yakko@feddit.ukY This user is from outside of this forum
                          yakko@feddit.uk
                          wrote last edited by
                          #19

                          Private equity buyout would be the same problem but even faster.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          31
                          • T tommysoda@lemmy.world

                            I feel like they’ve earned it because they’ve put in the most work. They are the best in the game because they make the user experience the best there is. EA, Ubisoft, and Microsoft have/had their own storefronts or launchers but they are clunky and unpleasant to deal with and the only benefits they had were exclusives. They’ve never put any effort into user experience and were mainly doing it to make themselves more money and it definitely showed. The only one that’s ever been a real competitor is Epic Launcher. And while it has gotten better over the years, the user experience is still not anywhere near Steam. And even now the Epic Launcher is still unpleasant to deal with in a lot of cases unless you just use it to play Fortnite.

                            With Steam everything just works and is basically seamless. Not only that, before Steam the modding community for most games had an immense learning curve and most people just avoided it save for Minecraft. And as far as I can tell you can’t even mod games you buy on the Microsoft Store because their file structure is atrocious.

                            The only storefront I wish was better/more popular was GOG. It’s not bad and has a lot of benefits (Like no DRM and offline installers), but Steam just makes everything so easy it’s hard not to get stuck with them once you’ve started.

                            L This user is from outside of this forum
                            L This user is from outside of this forum
                            leave_it_blank@lemmy.world
                            wrote last edited by
                            #20

                            Offline installers are the reason I only use my money on gog. I like to have control over the things I own, though it’s getting harder and harder these days. But where it’s still possible I use it, and gog is the only storefront that offers this service (which beats every other service I could think of).

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            11
                            • kairubyte@lemmy.dbzer0.comK kairubyte@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                              The question is, is it a monopoly because they are doing something to force their way into that position, or does every other offering just suck?

                              And what is the solution to said monopoly? Because as far as I can tell, the only way to give the other shitty stores a chance is to deliberately make the steam experience worse.

                              There’s also the question of if this is even a real problem. For instance, if two people are trying to sell lemonade on their street, and one is just throwing a lukewarm cup of haphazardly crushed lemons at you for $2, and the other is charging $3 but giving you a cool glass of carefully squeezed lemons… the second one may have a monopoly, but that’s because the first isn’t competent. Should the second be punished in some way because of that?

                              M This user is from outside of this forum
                              M This user is from outside of this forum
                              mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
                              wrote last edited by mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
                              #21

                              Saying it’s a monopoly doesn’t mean it needs solving. Anti-competitive behavior is a problem - but being a monopoly doesn’t require that abuse, and you don’t need a monopoly to exercise that abuse.

                              Yet people get deeply fricking weird about saying it’s a monopoly.

                              It’s naked taboo. It’s people feeling icky about a word, and actively refusing to engage in rational argument about meaning. When someone has dogmatically internalized that monopoly=bad and Steam=good, the text doesn’t matter. Even pointing out things they just said gets dismissed as some kind of attack against The Good Store.™

                              We have to start from plain acknowledgement that Steam’s competitors do not matter. They are plentiful and irrelevant. Explaining why they are doesn’t change that they are.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              12
                              • P psionicsickness@reddthat.com

                                And it will last til Gabe dies. Then I guarantee it enshittifes so fast it will make your head spin.

                                M This user is from outside of this forum
                                M This user is from outside of this forum
                                minorkeys@lemmy.world
                                wrote last edited by
                                #22

                                As soon as the business people gain control they will pivot everything to maximize profit. Enshitification is just a euphemism for business.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                2
                                • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                                  This post did not contain any content.
                                  Link Preview Image
                                  Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

                                  While many accuse Valve of monopolising the PC gaming market, others argue that Steam\'s dominance is simply the result of doing things right.

                                  favicon

                                  Gamereactor UK (www.gamereactor.eu)

                                  M This user is from outside of this forum
                                  M This user is from outside of this forum
                                  mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #23

                                  While many accuse Valve of monopolising the PC gaming market, others argue that Steam’s dominance is simply the result of doing things right.

                                  These assertions do not contradict. I cannot overstress that.

                                  This whole article is ‘Valve’s monopoly is fine because they did things right.’

                                  Having one good store is not, in itself, a problem. But it does mean we’re one fuckup away from having no good stores.

                                  N 1 Reply Last reply
                                  18
                                  • cosmicpancake@sh.itjust.worksC cosmicpancake@sh.itjust.works

                                    Larian isn’t wrong, Steam mostly works. Stable client, refunds, workshop, Proton, massive userbase and tools that actually help developers and players. A lot of other stores still feel half-baked next to that.

                                    But deserved != harmless. Valve has way too much power, discovery is a dumpster fire, and their communication and policy decisions can be arbitrary. Dominance like that rewards sloppiness and makes it harder for better alternatives to gain traction.

                                    So yeah, Steam earned its place, but I do not want any one company owning PC gaming. Competition keeps them honest, and right now we need more real contenders, not just storefronts throwing money at exclusives.

                                    Tywèle [she|her]T This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Tywèle [she|her]T This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Tywèle [she|her]
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #24

                                    Competition keeps them honest, and right now we need more real contenders, not just storefronts throwing money at exclusives.

                                    Then the competition should put in the work.

                                    S H S 3 Replies Last reply
                                    38
                                    • D dukemirage@lemmy.world

                                      The only storefront I wish was better/more popular was GOG. It’s not bad and has a lot of benefits (Like no DRM and offline installers), but Steam just makes everything so easy it’s hard not to get stuck with them once you’ve started.

                                      Well the no DRM/offline installer part is the most important part. I buy a game, I download and install it. If I need more features I may be better off with Steam anyway.

                                      Tywèle [she|her]T This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Tywèle [she|her]T This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Tywèle [she|her]
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #25

                                      As far as I know the Steam DRM is not mandatory to use for developers.

                                      D 1 Reply Last reply
                                      4
                                      • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                                        This post did not contain any content.
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                                        Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

                                        While many accuse Valve of monopolising the PC gaming market, others argue that Steam\'s dominance is simply the result of doing things right.

                                        favicon

                                        Gamereactor UK (www.gamereactor.eu)

                                        D This user is from outside of this forum
                                        D This user is from outside of this forum
                                        D06M4
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #26

                                        I only buy games on Steam, GOG and ItchIO. The main reason I don’t give a cent to stores from EA, Ubisoft or Epic Games anymore is their services and terms are horrible. I’m all in for supporting competition when it’s good competition.

                                        R thingsiplay@beehaw.orgT S JackbyDevJ 4 Replies Last reply
                                        94
                                        • ook@discuss.tchncs.deO This user is from outside of this forum
                                          ook@discuss.tchncs.deO This user is from outside of this forum
                                          ook@discuss.tchncs.de
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #27

                                          Well yeah, that will be the potential first sign to look out for. If that happens no need to think it won’t get worse like everything else.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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