Well, you take their address, sign a message with your private key saying .001 bitcoin goes there and propagate it over the network. But in very simple terms yep, bitcoins magically land on their address. Whole thing sustains itself on economic incentives and cryptography, without any central authority

So there is a network and backbone to it. And you need to do something more than “I give this person a bitcoins for my game” especially when working through a separate storefront. Both to ensure that the person receives their game and you receive their currency.

The problem with current transactions isn’t the money itself, it’s the services that use that currency.

So there is a network and backbone to it

Yes, it’s a permissionless P2P network.

And you need to do something more than “I give this person a bitcoins for my game”

Signing and sending transaction is exactly it. Transaction says that you send your bitcoins to an address controlled by the other person.

especially when working through a separate storefront. Both to ensure that the person receives their game and you receive their currency.

Crypto doesn’t ensure you get the product. Like with real cash, other party might just run away with money

Crypto doesn’t ensure you get the product. Like with real cash, other party might just run away with money

Which is why intermediaries exist and why crypto isn’t in any way a solution for the problem this entire post is about. And why bringing it up randomly is complete tech bro wankery.

Another friendly reminder that PayPal is not a bank. They don’t carry FDIC insurance. They aren’t regulated like a bank and you agree that they can do fuck all to your money at any time for any reason or no reason.

In other words,

STOP USING PAYPAL!

This is now the millionth time that there are news that PayPal can and will do this and that there is almost 0 legal action you can take.

Why oh why on Earth do you still keep money stored there? I understand using it for transactions, sometimes it is the only way but there is no need to keep the money on it, or is there?

At this point, sorry, your own fault for trusting PayPal.

Yes, simply put, that’s how it works. You should read the whitepaper: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

The first sentence:

A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution

All transactions are public and verifiable. How is that less accountability?

And what recourse do you have?

More than using Paypal, obviously. Depending on the amount, you can take them to small claims court, or get lawyers involved for larger sums. The great thing is that they cannot claim you didn’t pay, and you have proof of services rendered, or products purchased. And if you don’t trust the merchant, don’t buy from them.

So there is a network and backbone to it.

Yes, Bitcoin is not a currency, it’s an open permissionless network of trust secured not by access right managment and opacity but game theory and past energy. Very useful to build currencies. I recommend you Andreas Antonopoulos work, his content age very well and everything is under CreativeCommons. A great video to start is : What is Bitcoin and why does it matters?

The problem with current transactions isn’t the money itself, it’s the services that use that currency.

It really depend where you live. For Venezualian, Lebanese, Turkish and many more people there is huge problem with their currencies and banking services. Also in Africa many ex-french colonies are forced to use Franc CFA which is basically an economic-leash by the french government. We can debate on the many issues with the USD currency but these are little (for now at least) compared to others.

You know you can build an escrow out of a smart-contract (even on Bitcoin) using multi-sig to ensure both parties are satisfied ?

LOL. You’ve done this, I presume?

Yes, in fact I use the Lightning Network almost daily.

That’s a weird name for a small claims court.

I’ve never had to take any company to court, because we have consumer protections. That covers purchases with crypto.

So why would you bring up small claims court if it’s not even necessary? Can’t keep track of your own story?

You asked what recourse you have, I assumed you realised we have consumer protections in Canada. Then you tried to twist it into whether I’ve personally taken someone to court. That’s irrelevant since the point is that consumer protections already exist, so your whole argument falls apart. You’re just baiting at this point. And yes, I have returned stuff after paying with cash, crypto and credit card. This is not uncommon.

No, you’ve never actually shown that there’s recourse against bad actors. You brought up small claims court, but dropped the subject - likely because there’s no legal framework for that; then you mentioned nebulous “consumer protections,” but still can’t manage come up with any description of how a bad actor would be held to account in such a situation.

With a credit card, for example, this is typically a very easy process that can be accomplished via one’s bank’s website, supported by financial regulatory frameworks.

Yep, same, I did some competitions with a friend, they sent me my half of the winnings via PayPal, his account is hacked and the hacker for some reason tries to claim back all the winnings. Even though the hacker only got access once and my friend was in constant contact with PayPal, they still dragged it out for months and months, every week sending me warning about my account being in debt despite the fact my friend had already told them about the hack and proven his identity.

It’s funny that a hacker with a random IP and no verification can fuck my life up for 6+ months with a single click, but my friend with all is documents and login history can’t convince PayPal they need to stop trying to take ~£60k off me.

As soon as it was finally sorted I deleted my PayPal.