The Conservative floor crosser actually reveals a lot about the Liberal budget (and it's not pretty)
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What was the alternative? I would have loved to vote NDP, and usually do in local elections, but they stood no chance. I wasn’t so much voting for Carney as against Poilievre.
I think that is the point. The establishment can force a person in when the other is straight up evil.
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Carney being a fiscal conservative / pro-free market / pro-private sector business person isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s paid attention to his career. That the liberals are a centrist party who’s values skew left / right based on the perceived ‘majority’ that exists in the centre, which is the demographic they attempt to target to get elected, isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s paid attention to the history of the liberal party. That Canada’s general sentiment is/had shifted towards the right, in part due to the perception of unequal treatment under the guise of initiatives such as DEI and equity programs, isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s followed social trends (at least, those who try to get a fairly ‘outside of an echo chamber’ feel for them).
This isn’t to say I support the tax breaks being given to the rich of course. If I had my way, we’d go in a much different direction. All I’m trying to get at is that this isn’t all that surprising to many, and it’s likely still an outcome they viewed as preferable to PP’s conservatives, and to the NDP. Hell, the NDP basically said vote liberal if it helped to stop the Cons.
I’m sure part of the hope is that the liberals will shift right far enough, that the cons won’t have a viable path to full control of the government. In theory that’ll open up more room for the NDP on the left. Where people who are for some reason ‘shocked’ by Carney’s moves, will find solace.
What’s more shocking to me in a way is how far to the left the Liberals had drifted, as a centrist party. That’s what opened up opportunities for the cons to make such large gains, and what caused the NDP to be so thoroughly routed. Seeing cons cross the isle because the Liberals are once again more ‘centrist’ in their values, isn’t a bad thing.
How much farther right does the centrist party needs to go before the far-right option drops of the table and the “leftist” option becomes viable as the new center? The southern neighbour has shown us: too much
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How much farther right does the centrist party needs to go before the far-right option drops of the table and the “leftist” option becomes viable as the new center? The southern neighbour has shown us: too much
Gotta admit, I’m not too clear on what you’re positing here. Yes, there’s the possibility that the liberals could go too far to the right – similar to how they’d gone too far to the left recently – and as a result essentially eliminate support for far right parties. I personally don’t think it’s too likely that either ‘extreme’ would get fully squashed, as there will always be a small segment that thinks things haven’t gone far enough.
Our southern neighbour is just, in absolute chaos at the moment. I don’t really see how anything from their current situation or their historic style of government translates to Canada’s electoral stuff in this case. In addition to having multiple parties, the structure of the legislature is also quite different. Realistically, having more parties that represent better wedges of the Canadian landscape is a net win for how well the government’s actions likely align to the people’s will.
I mean, the cons going in for that hard-right bullshit, was basically a political choice based on them figuring they wouldn’t lose the fiscally conservative/socially progressive support from the party. PP embraced US/Trump style bullshit, because he was confident his supporters who hated that, had no where to go.
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Carney being a fiscal conservative / pro-free market / pro-private sector business person isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s paid attention to his career. That the liberals are a centrist party who’s values skew left / right based on the perceived ‘majority’ that exists in the centre, which is the demographic they attempt to target to get elected, isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s paid attention to the history of the liberal party. That Canada’s general sentiment is/had shifted towards the right, in part due to the perception of unequal treatment under the guise of initiatives such as DEI and equity programs, isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s followed social trends (at least, those who try to get a fairly ‘outside of an echo chamber’ feel for them).
This isn’t to say I support the tax breaks being given to the rich of course. If I had my way, we’d go in a much different direction. All I’m trying to get at is that this isn’t all that surprising to many, and it’s likely still an outcome they viewed as preferable to PP’s conservatives, and to the NDP. Hell, the NDP basically said vote liberal if it helped to stop the Cons.
I’m sure part of the hope is that the liberals will shift right far enough, that the cons won’t have a viable path to full control of the government. In theory that’ll open up more room for the NDP on the left. Where people who are for some reason ‘shocked’ by Carney’s moves, will find solace.
What’s more shocking to me in a way is how far to the left the Liberals had drifted, as a centrist party. That’s what opened up opportunities for the cons to make such large gains, and what caused the NDP to be so thoroughly routed. Seeing cons cross the isle because the Liberals are once again more ‘centrist’ in their values, isn’t a bad thing.
It’s definitely something I expected to happen and still prefer over PP and the conservatives being in charge, but even though I didn’t vote NDP doesn’t mean I prefer this outcome over NDP being in power.
I voted liberal because my riding is largely conservative and it would be lucky to turn red and a miracle to go orange
If we had a different electoral system I would have gone 1 NDP 2 Green 3 Liberal and 4 Conservative in ranked choice.
Unfortunately we are currently stuck with first past the post leading to my riding voting blue with a narrow lead over red and hardly any voters for orange and green.
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You know minority governments are a thing though, right? I keep saying it in every comment here. Even a conservative minority with a strong NDP to keep it in check and demand compromises would’ve been better. At least there would’ve been a socialist influence.
Obviously I know that. Carney’s current government is a minority government.
You really think the NDP would be a meaningful partner in any sense to a Conservative government? They’d work with the Liberals instead, they’re more closely aligned with Conservative goals and values.
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There’s a third, even fourth option. A strong NDP in a minority government would’ve gone a long way.
In a minority Liberal government, perhaps. I don’t see a Conservative minority government being particularly interested in working with the NDP.
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We’re not a two-party system, champ.
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As opposed up what we have right now?
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Even a minority conservative government with a strong NDP
Surely you jest… not only your “better” alternative is entirely hypothetical, and impossible for the electorate to target… but giving power to the maple magas would be suicide and never ever conductive to compromise of any kind
Just look south and you can see the playbook the cons here would apply (they have adopted it all). PP would starve the most vulnerable Canadians to force a vote on making it illegal to say the word “trans”
Carney is a heartless bastard and we do need to fight this budget but to pretend flirting with maple maga is a better alternative is laughable
I think we’re misunderstanding each other here.
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There’s more than two options. This isn’t the U.S.
There wasn’t, and everyone knew it. That’s why the NDP got fucked, people strategic voted to keep the Cons out.
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If you make them, sure. We have three major parties, and others as well. Of course, people constantly vote “strategically” which is a way they make themselves feel good about voting against their interests. No one would call it strategic voting if it was simply the vote that actually represented them.
The far-right party gets the crazies and racists and whatnot and the center-right party gets the “I have gay friends” centrists and whatever leftists they can scare and/or threaten into voting for them against the far-right party.
Vote for what is closest to your values or just don’t show up because at least then you’re not giving false-positive support for something you don’t want.
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Withhold your volunteering and donating to the liberals since they already get so much money from the rich consistently. They will always put their interests before everyday canadians.
Strategically vote if you have to and redirect your efforts to the independents, fairvote and smaller parties.
Who says I donate and volunteer??? I have never done that for any political party.
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Unfortunately they weren’t an option though. NDP members even encouraged NDP voters to vote Liberal to stop the Conservatives. The NDP should have been an option, but they weren’t. The NDP were only an “option” this election in the same way the Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada or the Animal Protection Party were options; they exist.
I have hopes (probably unrealistic) that the NDP comes back swinging HARD, screaming about social services, programs, and taxes on the wealthy, and not shutting up leading up to 2029. I hope Mamdani in NY can prove in his first 3 months leading up to when the NDP has their leadership vote that if social programs can work in the US, we can significantly increase those structures here.
The NDP can be relevent again for the next election (I hope), but they just weren’t for this last one.
Still not an excuse. They were on the ballot, and all we’re doing is kicking the can down the road. The race was way too tight already, next election is going to be rough and the only people we’ll have to defend us are the fucking Liberals.
Vote for the party platform that most closely aligns with your values or don’t show up at all. A vote cast against yourself weakens your representation and strengthens those who don’t give a shit about you after they’ve ripped off your vote.
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As opposed up what we have right now?
You’re insisting on an outcome that was not possible. The NDP were not going to achieve any significant power or influence in the previous election. With a handful of exceptional ridings, any vote for the NDP was effectively a vote for Pierre. You may not be happy with that but it is the reality dictated by the electoral facts on the ground and by basic game theory. Insisting otherwise results in people ending up voting against their own interests.
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They stood no realistic chance of getting in.
Yea, says who? It’s not a probability thing and our voting system might suck but if they get more votes then they win and that’s the end of it. Vote for whoever aligns with your values or don’t show up and definitely keep your mouth shut when the center-right government that stole your vote starts doing exactly what any dumbass could have predicted they’d do.
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If you make them, sure. We have three major parties, and others as well. Of course, people constantly vote “strategically” which is a way they make themselves feel good about voting against their interests. No one would call it strategic voting if it was simply the vote that actually represented them.
The far-right party gets the crazies and racists and whatnot and the center-right party gets the “I have gay friends” centrists and whatever leftists they can scare and/or threaten into voting for them against the far-right party.
Vote for what is closest to your values or just don’t show up because at least then you’re not giving false-positive support for something you don’t want.
The NDP is not currently a recognized party at all, let alone a “major” one. Or are you referring to the Bloc?
Vote for what is closest to your values or just don’t show up
That’s the same picture if you’re an NDP voter in most ridings in the last election. Watch the video, it’s very short and explains the problem quite well.
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As someone who promotes fairvote.ca and how broken FPTP is, you’re aware that FPTP promotes a two-party system. In Canada, the only two players on the national level are the liberals and conservatives. And a lot of people voted liberal because they really didn’t want conservative. The liberals didn’t have to do anything to get this result - the system is behaving as designed.
And a lot of people voted liberal because they reallydidn’t want conservative. The liberals didn’t have to do anything to get this result
I mean a lot of people voted conservative as well, If I’m not mistaken the Liberals were on the brink of losing the election until the orange melon down south started spouting his mouth a month or two prior to the election.
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In any case. We did the NDP dirty. They didn’t deserve to lose so many seats. People didn’t give Jagmeet the credit he was due. People were affraid of Trump and thought an establishment bean counter was going to save them.
Also, can you imagine the meltdown that Trump would’ve had if he had to deal with a Sikh prime minister? He’s already freaking out over a muslim mayor in New York.
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Better? Yes. An option? Unfortunately no, not this election.
Think about it. Singh gets elected as prime minster, even with a NDP minority. Imagine the meltdown Trump would have over this. I think this would have forced Canada to make deals with other nations and quickly closed our relationship with the fascist regime down south. We also wouldn’t have had sent weapons, vehicles and parts to Israel because he was a defender of the Palestinian cause and against the genocide. This would have rocked the political world for the best in my opinion.
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Still not an excuse. They were on the ballot, and all we’re doing is kicking the can down the road. The race was way too tight already, next election is going to be rough and the only people we’ll have to defend us are the fucking Liberals.
Vote for the party platform that most closely aligns with your values or don’t show up at all. A vote cast against yourself weakens your representation and strengthens those who don’t give a shit about you after they’ve ripped off your vote.
There were polls suggesting a Conservative super majority. For many NDP voters the risk was just too great. There was a time not long before the election that had the Libs polling so low, and the Cons polling so high even if the NDP kept their seats the Cons would still win majority.
I agree we should vote for the platform we most closely align with, but that said, this election was not a normal one. The US had just broken trade deals and started a trade war while talking annexation. For many, our sovereignty was at stake, and the NDP had no chance of saving us from that.
