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  3. Dual Wielding [Dungeons & Dragons]

Dual Wielding [Dungeons & Dragons]

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  • tgirlschierkeT tgirlschierke
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    susaga@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
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    susaga@sh.itjust.works
    wrote last edited by
    #21

    There’s a phenomenon in TTRPGs called a Mermaids Amulet. There was an item in a game that let a mermaid breathe in air, which was the ONLY thing that indicated they normally couldn’t. In short, a rule was only shown to exist by an ability to overcome it.

    Monks have the ability to make a bonus action unarmed strike after making an attack, which would be redundant if the dual wielding rules let you do that.

    _lilith@lemmy.world_ R 2 Replies Last reply
    31
    • chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.worldC chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world

      Yeah, especially when one is likely much more powerful than the other. If you are a monk with a sword you are wasting your time. If you are a Warrior* with a free hand you are wasting your time.

      *Sorry, that should have been Fighter, I’m sick, and I’ve been reading too many variant rulesets while I’m sitting at home.

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      vithigar@lemmy.ca
      wrote last edited by
      #22

      If you have nothing else to do with your bonus action that round then it isn’t really a waste of time, no matter how bad it is. 1 damage is sometimes all you need.

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • mojofrododojo@lemmy.worldM mojofrododojo@lemmy.world

        weird… am I the only one who grew up w/ ‘dual wielding is two weapons of the same kind’ table rule? hence, the dual label…

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        orenj@lemmy.kde.social
        wrote last edited by
        #23

        Rapier and main gauche was my first idea of dual wielding, shrug

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • mojofrododojo@lemmy.worldM mojofrododojo@lemmy.world

          weird… am I the only one who grew up w/ ‘dual wielding is two weapons of the same kind’ table rule? hence, the dual label…

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          jax@sh.itjust.works
          wrote last edited by
          #24

          Probably, considering the meaning of dual

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • tgirlschierkeT tgirlschierke
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            zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
            wrote last edited by
            #25

            Stuff like this is why I like my DM so much. He has basically a “common sense” time for stuff like this where if an action makes good common sense within the world he’s built (like a warrior type being able to punch someone after swinging a sword, or a brawler type being able to use both their fists without having to have some esoteric attribute attached to their character sheet), it’s allowed, and you can roll for it.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • G ghostie@lemmy.zip

              When I DM I have a consistent house rule that if you have the ability to do a bonus action, you can do a strike with an unarmed off hand if you are adjacent to an enemy regardless of class. If it connects it does 1d4 bludgeoning and has a chance to knock a medium or smaller enemy prone if the player wins a strength contest. Nat 20 achieves both the connecting of the hit and the prone.

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              vithigar@lemmy.ca
              wrote last edited by
              #26

              That is massively more powerful than a RAW normal action unarmed attack, which does a single point of damage with no other riders.

              G 1 Reply Last reply
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              • V vithigar@lemmy.ca

                That is massively more powerful than a RAW normal action unarmed attack, which does a single point of damage with no other riders.

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                ghostie@lemmy.zip
                wrote last edited by
                #27

                More fun

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • C canonical_warlock@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                  Also somewhat historically accurate. Ye olde sword fighting was basically just brawling with blades.

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                  mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works
                  wrote last edited by
                  #28

                  Depends on what era. In Europe, coats of plates didn’t really appear before the 13th century and full plate armor wasn’t developed until the late 14th century. Before that you mainly had people wearing chainmail and a helmet if they could get it, or gambesons (cloth armor).

                  At that time, weapons were still somewhat effective against armor. Spears, axes, and arrows could punch through chainmail.

                  When full plate armor was developed, only the very wealthy had access to it, and everyone else continued to just wear chainmail and gambesons. Fully armored knights effectively became tanks that could slash their way through all the peons.

                  The only realistic way the foot soldiers could stop them was to have several guys swarm an isolated knight, each grabbing a limb, and hold him down. Then they would either stab the knight through the gaps in his armor (like the eyeslot of the visor) or more likely would drag him off for ransom.

                  That being said, there are plenty of instances of 2 armored knights fighting each other, with them often half-swording or grappling each other to the ground and stabbing each other with daggers.

                  But my earlier comparison to tanks still stands. Most of the time, tanks are actually supporting infantry units, with tank v tank encounters being relatively rare. Similarly, knights spent most of their time in relatively small units killing a lot of unarmored opponents

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • M mindbleach@sh.itjust.works

                    Tell me how the grass tastes, little man!

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                    mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works
                    wrote last edited by
                    #29

                    As someone with a similar hobby, I personally hate this clip. It’s obviously choreographed, but I just don’t find concussions funny anymore.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • mojofrododojo@lemmy.worldM mojofrododojo@lemmy.world

                      weird… am I the only one who grew up w/ ‘dual wielding is two weapons of the same kind’ table rule? hence, the dual label…

                      ooops@feddit.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
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                      ooops@feddit.org
                      wrote last edited by
                      #30

                      Not the only one, but probably a minority. Dual-wielding identical weapons is mostly a meme popularized by fantasy literature and games, and the movies and pc games based on those.

                      In actual reality people are quite bad at coordinating similar weapons and don’t get much benefit out of it. So the classical dual-wield is a bigger main weapon and a smaller supporting offhand, beginning with shields being used offensively (and getting smaller and more maneuverable with the main one becoming lighter and faster - see buckler) and ending with classic combinations like rapier & parrying dagger or Daishō (a katana & wakizashi pair).

                      mojofrododojo@lemmy.worldM 1 Reply Last reply
                      7
                      • owenfromcanada@lemmy.caO owenfromcanada@lemmy.ca

                        I can’t imagine too many scenarios where allowing someone who is wielding a one-handed (or versatile) weapon and nothing in the off hand to have a bonus action unarmed strike to be game-breaking. Seems like an easy call to me.

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                        emeralddawn45@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                        wrote last edited by
                        #31

                        Pretty sure this is rules as written or at least as interpreted by Baldur’s Gate 3. It’s been a while since my playthrough but I’m pretty sure I was doing this with Astarion the whole time. Knife in one hand unarmed strike with the other. Warrior monk rogue kicked ass.

                        owenfromcanada@lemmy.caO 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • tgirlschierkeT tgirlschierke
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                          soup@lemmy.world
                          wrote last edited by
                          #32

                          People desperately need to understand that mechanical rules are there for balancing and taking them so painfully literally just isn’t necessary.

                          You only get one unarmed attack on the dice, but if you want to say you did the damage in two or three hits instead of one then go for it, it literally does not matter. You can even say you missed one attack and them wound up for a sneaky second one!

                          Follow the rules for number related things and roleplay and tell a story for being cool related things.

                          HossenfefferH 🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮 K N 3 Replies Last reply
                          24
                          • S soup@lemmy.world

                            People desperately need to understand that mechanical rules are there for balancing and taking them so painfully literally just isn’t necessary.

                            You only get one unarmed attack on the dice, but if you want to say you did the damage in two or three hits instead of one then go for it, it literally does not matter. You can even say you missed one attack and them wound up for a sneaky second one!

                            Follow the rules for number related things and roleplay and tell a story for being cool related things.

                            HossenfefferH This user is from outside of this forum
                            HossenfefferH This user is from outside of this forum
                            Hossenfeffer
                            wrote last edited by
                            #33

                            … and this is why I don’t play D&D. It’s all abstract. It’s more like a board game than an RPG.

                            [Obviously, this is just my opinion, and it’s subjective, and it’s probably wrong. But, we are where we are.]

                            𝕱𝖎𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍W I S 3 Replies Last reply
                            2
                            • E emeralddawn45@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                              Pretty sure this is rules as written or at least as interpreted by Baldur’s Gate 3. It’s been a while since my playthrough but I’m pretty sure I was doing this with Astarion the whole time. Knife in one hand unarmed strike with the other. Warrior monk rogue kicked ass.

                              owenfromcanada@lemmy.caO This user is from outside of this forum
                              owenfromcanada@lemmy.caO This user is from outside of this forum
                              owenfromcanada@lemmy.ca
                              wrote last edited by
                              #34

                              In BG3, you have to multiclass into rogue for the off-hand attack. But yeah, I think it would let you “dual wield” with a single light weapon.

                              F 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • susaga@sh.itjust.worksS susaga@sh.itjust.works

                                There’s a phenomenon in TTRPGs called a Mermaids Amulet. There was an item in a game that let a mermaid breathe in air, which was the ONLY thing that indicated they normally couldn’t. In short, a rule was only shown to exist by an ability to overcome it.

                                Monks have the ability to make a bonus action unarmed strike after making an attack, which would be redundant if the dual wielding rules let you do that.

                                _lilith@lemmy.world_ This user is from outside of this forum
                                _lilith@lemmy.world_ This user is from outside of this forum
                                _lilith@lemmy.world
                                wrote last edited by
                                #35

                                thought that just let them add their modifier to the second attack

                                susaga@sh.itjust.worksS 1 Reply Last reply
                                4
                                • _lilith@lemmy.world_ _lilith@lemmy.world

                                  thought that just let them add their modifier to the second attack

                                  susaga@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  susaga@sh.itjust.works
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #36

                                  If that was the case, it’d be phrased more like Two Weapon Fighting from the fighter’s fighting styles. But instead of saying you can add your modifier, it says you can make an unarmed strike. Which means you couldn’t before.

                                  𝕱𝖎𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍W 1 Reply Last reply
                                  4
                                  • S soup@lemmy.world

                                    People desperately need to understand that mechanical rules are there for balancing and taking them so painfully literally just isn’t necessary.

                                    You only get one unarmed attack on the dice, but if you want to say you did the damage in two or three hits instead of one then go for it, it literally does not matter. You can even say you missed one attack and them wound up for a sneaky second one!

                                    Follow the rules for number related things and roleplay and tell a story for being cool related things.

                                    🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮 K This user is from outside of this forum
                                    🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮 K This user is from outside of this forum
                                    🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮
                                    wrote last edited by kolanaki@pawb.social
                                    #37

                                    As DM, I’ll have you roll the dice, tell you if it succeeded or not, and then have YOU describe what happens based on the roll.

                                    But with this particular thing, it’s not really about the story. It’s the player trying to maximize their bonuses so the dice will be more favorable. In which case, sure. You can dual wield your hands. But you’re still taking a penalty with your off-hand unless you have the feat that removes it. You ever try to punch someone with your non-dominant arm? You definitely take a penalty IRL, unless you’re ambidextrous.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    13
                                    • tgirlschierkeT tgirlschierke
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                                      𝕱𝖎𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #38

                                      Unarmed Strikes are not just punches, they have nothing to do with how many hands you have. You can even Unarmed Strike with a weapon in each hand. If you want to “dual wield” Unarmed Strikes, go Monk.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      4
                                      • HossenfefferH Hossenfeffer

                                        … and this is why I don’t play D&D. It’s all abstract. It’s more like a board game than an RPG.

                                        [Obviously, this is just my opinion, and it’s subjective, and it’s probably wrong. But, we are where we are.]

                                        𝕱𝖎𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍W This user is from outside of this forum
                                        𝕱𝖎𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍W This user is from outside of this forum
                                        𝕱𝖎𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #39

                                        There are other games with fewer mechanical rules where you can go crazy with this kinda stuff. D&D is one of the most mechanically crunchy ones out there

                                        HossenfefferH 1 Reply Last reply
                                        2
                                        • owenfromcanada@lemmy.caO owenfromcanada@lemmy.ca

                                          I can’t imagine too many scenarios where allowing someone who is wielding a one-handed (or versatile) weapon and nothing in the off hand to have a bonus action unarmed strike to be game-breaking. Seems like an easy call to me.

                                          𝕱𝖎𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍W This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          𝕱𝖎𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍
                                          wrote last edited by witchfire@lemmy.world
                                          #40

                                          So there’s a few issues here:

                                          • Unarmed Strikes do not require an open hand. Punches, kicks, and slams all count as the same Unarmed Strike
                                          • If you were to allow this, there would be no reason to allow someone with two Shortswords or a Greataxe to do a BA strike
                                          • …which would then render the BA attack from Polearm Master moot since they no longer need a feat to do that
                                          • I’ll also note that the fighter with a sword in one hand and nothing in the other is likely using the Duelist fighting style, so that sword attack is effectively two die sizes larger. A Duelist Longsword is roughly equivalent to a Greatsword to put it in perspective

                                          At the end of the day, allowing martials to perform a BA Unarmed Strike wouldn’t be game breaking, but it needs to be applied universally which has secondary implications

                                          F owenfromcanada@lemmy.caO 2 Replies Last reply
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