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  3. "Artificial intelligence (AI)" and the law thread 🧵

"Artificial intelligence (AI)" and the law thread 🧵

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  • JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
    JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
    Jonathan
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    "Artificial intelligence (AI)" and the law thread 🧵

    (Really large language models (LLM), not AI, but I'll never find the thread if I don't put "AI" in it)

    JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
    1
    • JonathanJ Jonathan

      "Artificial intelligence (AI)" and the law thread 🧵

      (Really large language models (LLM), not AI, but I'll never find the thread if I don't put "AI" in it)

      JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
      JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
      Jonathan
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      https://www.wsj.com/articles/judge-sanctions-lawyers-who-filed-fake-chatgpt-legal-research-9ebad8f9

      JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • JonathanJ Jonathan

        https://www.wsj.com/articles/judge-sanctions-lawyers-who-filed-fake-chatgpt-legal-research-9ebad8f9

        JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
        JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
        Jonathan
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        BC lawyer sanctioned for hallucinated cases.

        "The cases never made it into Ke's arguments; they were withdrawn once she learned they were non-existent."

        https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/lawyer-chatgpt-fake-precedent-1.7126393

        JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • JonathanJ Jonathan

          BC lawyer sanctioned for hallucinated cases.

          "The cases never made it into Ke's arguments; they were withdrawn once she learned they were non-existent."

          https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/lawyer-chatgpt-fake-precedent-1.7126393

          JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
          JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
          Jonathan
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          There are some things where you say to yourself, "I'm not sure how I feel about this."

          This is not one of those things.

          An AI video of a victim was presented at a criminal sentencing hearing to make a victim impact statement.

          https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/road-rage-victim-speaks-killers-sentencing-rcna205454

          JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • JonathanJ Jonathan

            There are some things where you say to yourself, "I'm not sure how I feel about this."

            This is not one of those things.

            An AI video of a victim was presented at a criminal sentencing hearing to make a victim impact statement.

            https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/road-rage-victim-speaks-killers-sentencing-rcna205454

            JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
            JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
            Jonathan
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Guy tried to play a video of an avatar to present his arguments. The judges immediately turned it off because they hadn't been told that this is was what was being submitted.

            https://apnews.com/article/artificial-intelligence-ai-courts-nyc-5c97cba3f3757d9ab3c2e5840127f765

            JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • JonathanJ Jonathan

              Guy tried to play a video of an avatar to present his arguments. The judges immediately turned it off because they hadn't been told that this is was what was being submitted.

              https://apnews.com/article/artificial-intelligence-ai-courts-nyc-5c97cba3f3757d9ab3c2e5840127f765

              JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
              JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
              Jonathan
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Uh oh another attorney getting ordered by the court to appear and show cause why he should not be sanctioned for fake cases in his memorandum of law. (Because he used "AI" to draft it.)

              Here's the court order:
              https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nced.221403/gov.uscourts.nced.221403.119.0_1.pdf

              JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • JonathanJ Jonathan

                Uh oh another attorney getting ordered by the court to appear and show cause why he should not be sanctioned for fake cases in his memorandum of law. (Because he used "AI" to draft it.)

                Here's the court order:
                https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nced.221403/gov.uscourts.nced.221403.119.0_1.pdf

                JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                Jonathan
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                "In his reply, Fivehouse asserted that the response brief contained fabricated quotations and misstated the holdings of several cases.

                The court directed Renfer to respond.

                ...

                JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • JonathanJ Jonathan

                  "In his reply, Fivehouse asserted that the response brief contained fabricated quotations and misstated the holdings of several cases.

                  The court directed Renfer to respond.

                  ...

                  JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                  JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                  Jonathan
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  ... In a surreply, he stated that he “inadvertently included incorrect citations to case law from this Circuit,” attributing the errors to the “inadvertent filing of an unfinalized draft document.”
                  ...
                  Having reviewed the filings in this matter and other submissions by Renfer, the court has serious concerns about the accuracy of certain quotations and representations in Renfer’s filings,
                  and the explanation offered for their inclusion."

                  Good for the court for saying "and the explanation"

                  JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • JonathanJ Jonathan

                    ... In a surreply, he stated that he “inadvertently included incorrect citations to case law from this Circuit,” attributing the errors to the “inadvertent filing of an unfinalized draft document.”
                    ...
                    Having reviewed the filings in this matter and other submissions by Renfer, the court has serious concerns about the accuracy of certain quotations and representations in Renfer’s filings,
                    and the explanation offered for their inclusion."

                    Good for the court for saying "and the explanation"

                    JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                    JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                    Jonathan
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Trying CanLII's stupid "AI" search/analysis.

                    My FIRST result was bad.

                    First, the "AI" result:

                    "Hyundai Auto Canada Corp. v Engen, 2023 ABCA 85. The decision gives the appeal outcome (allowed in part), but it does not state any motion result."

                    Wrong. The VERY FIRST LINE of that decision:

                    "[1] The appellants (collectively, Hyundai) appeal the certification judge’s decision certifying the product liability action of the respondent, Robert Engen, as a class proceeding"

                    JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • JonathanJ Jonathan

                      Trying CanLII's stupid "AI" search/analysis.

                      My FIRST result was bad.

                      First, the "AI" result:

                      "Hyundai Auto Canada Corp. v Engen, 2023 ABCA 85. The decision gives the appeal outcome (allowed in part), but it does not state any motion result."

                      Wrong. The VERY FIRST LINE of that decision:

                      "[1] The appellants (collectively, Hyundai) appeal the certification judge’s decision certifying the product liability action of the respondent, Robert Engen, as a class proceeding"

                      JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      Jonathan
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      AI summary of oppression remedy in England says creditors have standing to bring such an action. It cites two sources.

                      Neither source says that.

                      🤷

                      JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • JonathanJ Jonathan

                        AI summary of oppression remedy in England says creditors have standing to bring such an action. It cites two sources.

                        Neither source says that.

                        🤷

                        JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        Jonathan
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Another day another client hands me AI slop to review. Sigh.

                        JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • JonathanJ Jonathan

                          Another day another client hands me AI slop to review. Sigh.

                          JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                          JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                          Jonathan
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          _CEO Asks ChatGPT How to Void $250 Million Contract, Ignores His Lawyers, Loses Terribly in Court_
                          https://www.404media.co/ceo-ignores-lawyers-asks-chatgpt-how-to-void-250-million-contract-loses-terribly-in-court/

                          JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • JonathanJ Jonathan

                            _CEO Asks ChatGPT How to Void $250 Million Contract, Ignores His Lawyers, Loses Terribly in Court_
                            https://www.404media.co/ceo-ignores-lawyers-asks-chatgpt-how-to-void-250-million-contract-loses-terribly-in-court/

                            JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                            JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                            Jonathan
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Third case about a lawyer reprimanded for fake cases in their factum, likely because of the use of artificial intelligence.

                            https://www.crookston.ca/wp/2026/03/12/false-quotes-fake-citations-and-artificial-intelligence/

                            JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • JonathanJ Jonathan

                              Third case about a lawyer reprimanded for fake cases in their factum, likely because of the use of artificial intelligence.

                              https://www.crookston.ca/wp/2026/03/12/false-quotes-fake-citations-and-artificial-intelligence/

                              JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              Jonathan
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Added a fourth to that page.

                              Zhang v Chen, 2024 BCSC 285.

                              JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • JonathanJ Jonathan

                                Added a fourth to that page.

                                Zhang v Chen, 2024 BCSC 285.

                                JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                Jonathan
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Wait a second, I may have just taken on a second job.

                                i just searched "artificial intelligence" and hallucination, and 138 results popped up.

                                The majority are not articles about the topic but actual cases where the decision maker has made comments that the cases before it are hallucinated.

                                Edit: Upon review, the vast majority are self-represented people using AI. That they do so is not helpful, but at least understandable. I won't be focussing on these cases here.

                                JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • JonathanJ Jonathan

                                  Wait a second, I may have just taken on a second job.

                                  i just searched "artificial intelligence" and hallucination, and 138 results popped up.

                                  The majority are not articles about the topic but actual cases where the decision maker has made comments that the cases before it are hallucinated.

                                  Edit: Upon review, the vast majority are self-represented people using AI. That they do so is not helpful, but at least understandable. I won't be focussing on these cases here.

                                  JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Jonathan
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  It is very clear from the sheer volume of such decisions that the courts and tribunals are getting absolutely PUMMELLED with this garbage.

                                  JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • JonathanJ Jonathan

                                    It is very clear from the sheer volume of such decisions that the courts and tribunals are getting absolutely PUMMELLED with this garbage.

                                    JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                    JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Jonathan
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    A federal judge just disqualified both parties' lawyers from practicing before the courts for 2 years. They were also each fined about $3,000.

                                    Each side had used "artificial intelligence" to generate their materials and the materials were full of fake cases. Good times.

                                    https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/judge-rules-both-sides-lawsuit-misused-ai-disqualifies-lawyers-2026-06-09/

                                    JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • JonathanJ Jonathan

                                      A federal judge just disqualified both parties' lawyers from practicing before the courts for 2 years. They were also each fined about $3,000.

                                      Each side had used "artificial intelligence" to generate their materials and the materials were full of fake cases. Good times.

                                      https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/judge-rules-both-sides-lawsuit-misused-ai-disqualifies-lawyers-2026-06-09/

                                      JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Jonathan
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      "Aycock barred the lawyers on each side who either used AI for legal research or for drafting the filings at issue — Kathleen Wilson and Kathryn Williams — from appearing in the Northern District of Mississippi for two years. Wilson was fined $2,500, and Williams was fined $3,500."

                                      JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • JonathanJ Jonathan

                                        "Aycock barred the lawyers on each side who either used AI for legal research or for drafting the filings at issue — Kathleen Wilson and Kathryn Williams — from appearing in the Northern District of Mississippi for two years. Wilson was fined $2,500, and Williams was fined $3,500."

                                        JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Jonathan
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        We just tested* a legal LLM and at least about 1 3rd of the cases it returned were not relevant to the question or the cases did not exist.

                                        I tested it filing in citations only and it seemed to do that reasonably well but it still got two wrong. This was just looking up the actual citations of a case with a given name.

                                        (Edit: *I should clarify that this thing came bundled in another service we already have. So this is not a service we sought out. It was shoved into my face.)

                                        JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • JonathanJ Jonathan

                                          We just tested* a legal LLM and at least about 1 3rd of the cases it returned were not relevant to the question or the cases did not exist.

                                          I tested it filing in citations only and it seemed to do that reasonably well but it still got two wrong. This was just looking up the actual citations of a case with a given name.

                                          (Edit: *I should clarify that this thing came bundled in another service we already have. So this is not a service we sought out. It was shoved into my face.)

                                          JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Jonathan
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          This appears to be a huge waste of time and money and energy and this isn't anything I would pay for.

                                          I think I've pointed out elsewhere that when I ran a search in the AI search box versus the regular search box, I basically got the same results back.

                                          I presume the tests that they run these things against are tailored to produce great results and that's how they conclude that they're operating at a PhD level. Because it's giving me garbage.

                                          JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
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