There's this D&D con that's being advertised as a fan event with a performance by some AP losers I've never heard of.
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@Taskerland Over here in my silo, I don't seem to be short of people to talk to about games, and they aren't like that.
(Yeah, I am in an AP group, but it's a group of friends who happen to like sharing our games with the world. We aren't picking the most marketable game to bring in that sweet sweet Patreon money, as I've been seriously advised to do.)@RogerBW I've listened to your AP and I find it preferable to that of failed stand-up comedians and people who do non-union anime voice over work.
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@Taskerland Maybe that's what I find odd about current gaming. The lack of horizontalism. There's lots of "BeardMinge says he does this in his youtube" vs "Our group gets its snacks in a rota"
@Printdevil We have much to learn from venerable men who mutter into their beards while compulsively touching their faces.
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Nowadays the ttrpg scene is wildly and rigidly hierarchical.
You literally have people looking at you weird if you say that you think people like Matt Colville and the Alexandrian have boring ideas about running games and people get really upset if you are disrespectful towards your betters.
@Taskerland Gaming Feudalism was setting in when I left the social part of the hobby. It was getting really evident in Pathfinder groups I felt.
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@Printdevil We have much to learn from venerable men who mutter into their beards while compulsively touching their faces.
@Taskerland When I meet a venerable gamer I'll let you know and we can go listen to them together.
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Nowadays the ttrpg scene is wildly and rigidly hierarchical.
You literally have people looking at you weird if you say that you think people like Matt Colville and the Alexandrian have boring ideas about running games and people get really upset if you are disrespectful towards your betters.
@Taskerland We aren't at home to boring advice about running games from people who touch their faces.
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@RogerBW I've listened to your AP and I find it preferable to that of failed stand-up comedians and people who do non-union anime voice over work.
@Taskerland I'm glad. But also, I'm not going to upsell you on Premium Whartson or whatever.
I think my history helps here - largely playing in one extended group, White Dwarf, saw occasional issues of Dragon some years later, but that was all "here's what other people are doing, I'll take this and leave that". Gary was already a bit of a joke by the time I became aware of him as having a distinct style of gaming; I went along to Reading Games Fairs, and there were Official! tournaments, but they seemed to be a completely separate group of people from the ones I was playing with in the open gaming. -
@Taskerland I'm glad. But also, I'm not going to upsell you on Premium Whartson or whatever.
I think my history helps here - largely playing in one extended group, White Dwarf, saw occasional issues of Dragon some years later, but that was all "here's what other people are doing, I'll take this and leave that". Gary was already a bit of a joke by the time I became aware of him as having a distinct style of gaming; I went along to Reading Games Fairs, and there were Official! tournaments, but they seemed to be a completely separate group of people from the ones I was playing with in the open gaming.@Taskerland So there weren't Luminaries who were Getting It Right, and the people who were competitive about their gaming were over there in the tournament rooms, so it was all give and take. By the time I got onto USENET my habits were formed, and I was never on Twitbook.
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@Taskerland I'm glad. But also, I'm not going to upsell you on Premium Whartson or whatever.
I think my history helps here - largely playing in one extended group, White Dwarf, saw occasional issues of Dragon some years later, but that was all "here's what other people are doing, I'll take this and leave that". Gary was already a bit of a joke by the time I became aware of him as having a distinct style of gaming; I went along to Reading Games Fairs, and there were Official! tournaments, but they seemed to be a completely separate group of people from the ones I was playing with in the open gaming.We always had gaming tournaments but it was a 90s thing when we were organising cons, and the scoring was cross player and GMs, not the TSR tournaments things. It was very much a few scraps of "who did well at your table"
and in the case of Qcon 97, "did the writer of the CoC Scenario later marry the overall winner to much scowling at said author"
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We always had gaming tournaments but it was a 90s thing when we were organising cons, and the scoring was cross player and GMs, not the TSR tournaments things. It was very much a few scraps of "who did well at your table"
and in the case of Qcon 97, "did the writer of the CoC Scenario later marry the overall winner to much scowling at said author"
@Printdevil @Taskerland My first question is did they have a prior relationship or did the writer use it as a means of picking a potential spouse? 🤨
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This is what the Frankfurt school were on about when they talked about fear of freedom and authoritarian personalities.
You have a structurally horizontalist and creatively decentralised hobby, add the Internet, and people immediately sign up for rigid social hierarchies. They *hurl* their freedom and equality away in order to belong on someone else's terms.
@Taskerland One of the structured things I've noticed is people's inability to see gaming as a tool kit. Doom Clocks, etc etc. Yes, they have a place, but you shouldn't need to design a game around them. If it suits *a scenario* use it, if you want to track inventory because it's a survival precise game, go ahead. I don't get why the "this is a good trick for that one time" has become the cornerstone of whole games. There's a definite authority fear going on with all of that. Lack of agency .
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@Printdevil @Taskerland My first question is did they have a prior relationship or did the writer use it as a means of picking a potential spouse? 🤨
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@Taskerland So there weren't Luminaries who were Getting It Right, and the people who were competitive about their gaming were over there in the tournament rooms, so it was all give and take. By the time I got onto USENET my habits were formed, and I was never on Twitbook.
@RogerBW I remember going to a gaming club in the mid-90s and someone announced that they had levelled up in the RPGA and everyone just laughed at them.
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@Taskerland One of the structured things I've noticed is people's inability to see gaming as a tool kit. Doom Clocks, etc etc. Yes, they have a place, but you shouldn't need to design a game around them. If it suits *a scenario* use it, if you want to track inventory because it's a survival precise game, go ahead. I don't get why the "this is a good trick for that one time" has become the cornerstone of whole games. There's a definite authority fear going on with all of that. Lack of agency .
@Printdevil Yes... Rather 25 very precisely tailored games than a suite of techniques that get deployed as appropriate
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@Taskerland Maybe that's what I find odd about current gaming. The lack of horizontalism. There's lots of "BeardMinge says he does this in his youtube" vs "Our group gets its snacks in a rota"
@Printdevil @Taskerland the comfort in obeying instructions from a voice of authority is a big thing these days, I wonder if it's due to the influx of new people to the hobby or a generational change or what.
It's like authorial permission for ficton being a selling point for so many games, where they go, say, "this playbook has an off-hand remark that you can be a mushroom orc" and people will go "yooo, all shroomheads must get it, easy recommendation for your fungalpunk needs" despite /1
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@Printdevil @Taskerland the comfort in obeying instructions from a voice of authority is a big thing these days, I wonder if it's due to the influx of new people to the hobby or a generational change or what.
It's like authorial permission for ficton being a selling point for so many games, where they go, say, "this playbook has an off-hand remark that you can be a mushroom orc" and people will go "yooo, all shroomheads must get it, easy recommendation for your fungalpunk needs" despite /1
@Printdevil @Taskerland it really having no special frameworks or mechanics on sporing and other mushroom shit, it doesn't have some elaborate mushroom lore because it's anti-canon play-to-find-out setup, it merely told you that you can play as a mushroom and apparently you can't just pretend you're a fungus in any other game for some reason. /2
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@Taskerland I'm glad. But also, I'm not going to upsell you on Premium Whartson or whatever.
I think my history helps here - largely playing in one extended group, White Dwarf, saw occasional issues of Dragon some years later, but that was all "here's what other people are doing, I'll take this and leave that". Gary was already a bit of a joke by the time I became aware of him as having a distinct style of gaming; I went along to Reading Games Fairs, and there were Official! tournaments, but they seemed to be a completely separate group of people from the ones I was playing with in the open gaming. -
@Printdevil @RogerBW Wharton: The Pig-Slop You Can Trust!
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@Printdevil Yes... Rather 25 very precisely tailored games than a suite of techniques that get deployed as appropriate
@Taskerland I think there's a lot (and I say this incredibly rarely) to be learned from the Eddie "Babes" De Bono here, in his tool kit approach to thinking strategies, you could swap out his intro to six-hat-thinking or whatever and replace it with gaming tools and the advice of "use what works abandon what doesn't" is sage.
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@Printdevil @Taskerland it really having no special frameworks or mechanics on sporing and other mushroom shit, it doesn't have some elaborate mushroom lore because it's anti-canon play-to-find-out setup, it merely told you that you can play as a mushroom and apparently you can't just pretend you're a fungus in any other game for some reason. /2
I don't know I had a lot of arguments about roleplaying back in the 80s with D&D stalwarts who felt altering what you got experience for was imposing "Authorial Proxy" on the game. My suspicion is you've a two-fold issue, new people who (as Vazh will often say) have no access to historical memory of gaming because the hobby is weird, and old old sea dogs who've merely lasted the time out and now present as gods of the hobby.
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The idea of travelling and paying to *watch* and applaud someone I have never heard of play D&D is wild.
@Taskerland Recently it occurred to me that, when observing rpg discussions, we could draw paralels with sex. In normal groups people talk about their weird fetishes by starting with "I like when..." but if you're in some patriarchal bullshit group, everyone starts with "your group is doing sex wrong" because apparently adding jenga to an RPG is the same as non-consensually abusing your players
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