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  3. Handheld PC makers are slowly losing touch with Valve's successful Steam Deck template of affordability, and that's very concerning

Handheld PC makers are slowly losing touch with Valve's successful Steam Deck template of affordability, and that's very concerning

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved PC Gaming
pcgaming
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  • appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com

    Well then: Clear it up.

    I run headless debian VMs at home on a proxmox HV and another NUC with Debian that does Docker tasks.
    My steckdeck runs the stock OS and am not scared to tinker within it.

    Never assumed to be a pro and would consider an amateur at best that isnt scared to tinker.
    It’s just that I prefer convenience most of the time.

    So then. These are my cards. Explain what I learned wrong about the fractured linux ecosystem.
    So far I know that Arch, Debian and RHEL the biggest distro families are.

    Edit: Very helpful. Downvoting instead of telling me where I am wrong.
    (Yes my comment was provocative but absolutelynotavelociraptor@sh.itjust.works should just tell where I am wrong if they are so sure of themselve).

    G This user is from outside of this forum
    G This user is from outside of this forum
    ganryuu@lemmy.ca
    wrote last edited by
    #54

    The other answer from Natanael tells you that now

    appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 1 Reply Last reply
    2
    • F frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone

      Steam Deck hits a sweet spot. You can make it more powerful, but it’ll cost significantly more. You can make it cheaper, but you’ll cut out too many games people want to play.

      Also, anything like this with a resolution higher than 720p is wasting pixels and GPU power, IMO.

      A This user is from outside of this forum
      A This user is from outside of this forum
      arcane2077@sh.itjust.works
      wrote last edited by
      #55
      1. you couldn’t make it more powerful, it had the best of the best.
      2. my eyes work, and I still I don’t think clearer text and UI is a waste
      F F 2 Replies Last reply
      4
      • G ganryuu@lemmy.ca

        The other answer from Natanael tells you that now

        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        wrote last edited by
        #56

        Noticed and will be reading now.

        1 Reply Last reply
        1
        • N Natanael

          Steam on Linux defaults to providing a container based standard Linux environment which is independent of the underlying OS, providing access to all the expected software libraries and OS calls that games need to run.

          This is integrated into SteamOS. It’s also available via Steam on any other Linux distro. (And if you wanted to you could cut that part out and run it without Steam.)

          When running Windows games it even runs Proton within this container environment.

          That gives you a single very predictable and version controlled software environment.

          Meanwhile Windows randomly deprecates stuff that somebody might have invested tons of development effort into (silverlight, mixed reality, etc)

          appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
          appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
          appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          wrote last edited by
          #57

          When talking about a container environment you are talking about WINE, arent you?

          But if we are talking about native developed games, how would that look?
          That sounds to me like 1st priority-development will be continued using Windows as a base + DirectX and reliance that WINE will somewhat manage that.
          How would native Linux look for game devs in terms of platform targeting?

          N P 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • A arcane2077@sh.itjust.works
            1. you couldn’t make it more powerful, it had the best of the best.
            2. my eyes work, and I still I don’t think clearer text and UI is a waste
            F This user is from outside of this forum
            F This user is from outside of this forum
            frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            wrote last edited by
            #58

            There are several competitors that are more powerful, like the ROG Ally. They also need a bigger battery to support it, or they have worse battery life. And they’re more expensive.

            Clear text and UI is an issue because games don’t scale their shit properly.

            A 1 Reply Last reply
            13
            • dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.comD dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com

              valve can optimize their games for a steam deck. The steam deck isnt theirs?

              troedT This user is from outside of this forum
              troedT This user is from outside of this forum
              troed
              wrote last edited by
              #59

              When a games developer make a game for Switch Nintendo has a say in how it must perform before you’re allowed to release it. Valve have no such requirements on games put on Steam - it’s up to the developers whether to require a lot of performance or not. Thus, while Valve sells the Steam Deck that doesn’t mean games on Steam necessarily run well on it.

              dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.comD 1 Reply Last reply
              3
              • troedT troed

                When a games developer make a game for Switch Nintendo has a say in how it must perform before you’re allowed to release it. Valve have no such requirements on games put on Steam - it’s up to the developers whether to require a lot of performance or not. Thus, while Valve sells the Steam Deck that doesn’t mean games on Steam necessarily run well on it.

                dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.comD This user is from outside of this forum
                dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.comD This user is from outside of this forum
                dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                wrote last edited by
                #60

                Steam Deck can’t ever have that luxury.

                Still not sure why this is the case. Have yet to hear any clear argument why it will never happen for Valve.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                  When talking about a container environment you are talking about WINE, arent you?

                  But if we are talking about native developed games, how would that look?
                  That sounds to me like 1st priority-development will be continued using Windows as a base + DirectX and reliance that WINE will somewhat manage that.
                  How would native Linux look for game devs in terms of platform targeting?

                  N This user is from outside of this forum
                  N This user is from outside of this forum
                  Natanael
                  wrote last edited by
                  #61

                  No, Wine (and Proton) is a compatibility layer (API translation, etc). Containers is an isolation method which hides the details of the OS from the software and gives it a standardized environment.

                  Link Preview Image
                  GitHub - ValveSoftware/steam-runtime: A runtime environment for Steam applications

                  A runtime environment for Steam applications. Contribute to ValveSoftware/steam-runtime development by creating an account on GitHub.

                  favicon

                  GitHub (github.com)

                  No matter what Linux distribution you run Steam on, the only thing you need to do is to get the container system up and running. Once that runs, all software that runs in these containers will run on that device.

                  appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 1 Reply Last reply
                  3
                  • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                    This post did not contain any content.
                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                    slartybartfast@sh.itjust.works
                    wrote last edited by
                    #62

                    I just want something that I can play up to say Playstation 3 or Xbox 360 level emulation

                    UlrichU 1 Reply Last reply
                    4
                    • A arcane2077@sh.itjust.works
                      1. you couldn’t make it more powerful, it had the best of the best.
                      2. my eyes work, and I still I don’t think clearer text and UI is a waste
                      F This user is from outside of this forum
                      F This user is from outside of this forum
                      figjam@midwest.social
                      wrote last edited by
                      #63

                      Higher resolution will mean smaller text by default.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      1
                      • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                        This post did not contain any content.
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                        K This user is from outside of this forum
                        kepix@lemmy.world
                        wrote last edited by
                        #64

                        “slowly”

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        1
                        • S slartybartfast@sh.itjust.works

                          I just want something that I can play up to say Playstation 3 or Xbox 360 level emulation

                          UlrichU This user is from outside of this forum
                          UlrichU This user is from outside of this forum
                          Ulrich
                          wrote last edited by
                          #65

                          I dunno what this article is on about, you can find thousands of those from the likes of Anbernic, Powkiddy, Miyoo, Retroid, etc.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          2
                          • F frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                            There are several competitors that are more powerful, like the ROG Ally. They also need a bigger battery to support it, or they have worse battery life. And they’re more expensive.

                            Clear text and UI is an issue because games don’t scale their shit properly.

                            A This user is from outside of this forum
                            A This user is from outside of this forum
                            arcane2077@sh.itjust.works
                            wrote last edited by arcane2077@sh.itjust.works
                            #66

                            Those came after, Valve hasn’t a time machine (as far as I know)

                            You’re right about games not scaling shit properly, but that’s 99% of the time in gen 8 (console-first) games, where those games where designed solely for big screens with HD+ resolutions. Modern games have already started figuring out scaling for different resolutions and aspect ratios

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            1
                            • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                              This post did not contain any content.
                              NoxyN This user is from outside of this forum
                              NoxyN This user is from outside of this forum
                              Noxy
                              wrote last edited by
                              #67

                              they’re also forgetting the touchpads. the touchpads are so fucking good, and they add so much usability and flexibility. so much, I think, that no amount of superior performance, resoution, or battery life can make up for the lack of them.

                              P J 2 Replies Last reply
                              13
                              • N Natanael

                                No, Wine (and Proton) is a compatibility layer (API translation, etc). Containers is an isolation method which hides the details of the OS from the software and gives it a standardized environment.

                                Link Preview Image
                                GitHub - ValveSoftware/steam-runtime: A runtime environment for Steam applications

                                A runtime environment for Steam applications. Contribute to ValveSoftware/steam-runtime development by creating an account on GitHub.

                                favicon

                                GitHub (github.com)

                                No matter what Linux distribution you run Steam on, the only thing you need to do is to get the container system up and running. Once that runs, all software that runs in these containers will run on that device.

                                appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                                appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                                appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                                wrote last edited by appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                                #68

                                So something akin to flatpak/snap?
                                Isnt that the purpose and source of controversy vs distributing them the usual way of repositories?

                                Edit: Had some time to read the README.
                                Very interesting. But that sounds, like a vendor lock-in. Essentially devs are forced to use the Steam SDK to make it executable on Linux or face the issue of checking the compatibility of every distro, no?

                                P N 2 Replies Last reply
                                0
                                • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                                  This post did not contain any content.
                                  B This user is from outside of this forum
                                  B This user is from outside of this forum
                                  bosht@lemmy.world
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #69

                                  That title is cringe as fuck. There’s nothing concerning about it at all. Market saw Steam Deck’s success so they dove in. Whether they survive is dependent on if they provide good price points or justification for a higher price. Super simple.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  10
                                  • NoxyN Noxy

                                    they’re also forgetting the touchpads. the touchpads are so fucking good, and they add so much usability and flexibility. so much, I think, that no amount of superior performance, resoution, or battery life can make up for the lack of them.

                                    P This user is from outside of this forum
                                    P This user is from outside of this forum
                                    prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                    wrote last edited by prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                    #70

                                    Absolutely. They make mouse-based games playable with a controller. Gyro is nice too.

                                    NoxyN 1 Reply Last reply
                                    2
                                    • appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                                      When talking about a container environment you are talking about WINE, arent you?

                                      But if we are talking about native developed games, how would that look?
                                      That sounds to me like 1st priority-development will be continued using Windows as a base + DirectX and reliance that WINE will somewhat manage that.
                                      How would native Linux look for game devs in terms of platform targeting?

                                      P This user is from outside of this forum
                                      P This user is from outside of this forum
                                      prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                      wrote last edited by prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                      #71

                                      You might want to catch up on a decade or so of Linux gaming progress before wading into a conversation about it with controversial takes…

                                      appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                                        So something akin to flatpak/snap?
                                        Isnt that the purpose and source of controversy vs distributing them the usual way of repositories?

                                        Edit: Had some time to read the README.
                                        Very interesting. But that sounds, like a vendor lock-in. Essentially devs are forced to use the Steam SDK to make it executable on Linux or face the issue of checking the compatibility of every distro, no?

                                        P This user is from outside of this forum
                                        P This user is from outside of this forum
                                        prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #72

                                        You don’t need to use Steam to run games though…?

                                        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • NoxyN Noxy

                                          they’re also forgetting the touchpads. the touchpads are so fucking good, and they add so much usability and flexibility. so much, I think, that no amount of superior performance, resoution, or battery life can make up for the lack of them.

                                          J This user is from outside of this forum
                                          J This user is from outside of this forum
                                          jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
                                          wrote last edited by jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
                                          #73

                                          This is why I bought a deck oled even with the other more powerful handhelds already out.

                                          NoxyN 1 Reply Last reply
                                          3

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