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Wandering Adventure Party

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Competition? No. Comrade.

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  • bedbugcutlefish@lemmy.worldB bedbugcutlefish@lemmy.world

    If you were playing Bilbo in DnD 5e, the class that makes the most sense to give bilbo is Rogue. Commoner isn’t a class; bilbo could only be one if he was an NPC.

    Does he exactly map onto the DnD rogue chassis? No, he doesn’t, but he maps worse onto every other class.

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    its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    wrote on last edited by its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    #21

    That’s more because Rogue is an oversized bucket that too many things fit into. Conan the Barbarian is often called a thief, is he a rogue too? Of course not, but many of his stories involve him sneaking around and stealing things.

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    • J jesus_666@lemmy.world

      The same is roughly true of games with a more broad skill system, e.g. The Dark Eye with its dozens of skills. However, those systems tend to spread out abilities between party members by making it impractical to have all skills but affordable to have some. I actually like that a lot since skills can give depth to a character and can tie in the backstory in little mechanical ways.

      To construct an example party:

      The warrior is, of course, a good fighter proficient in several weapons, but also has good knowledge of strategy, tactics, and the history of warfare, knows how to treat wounds and maintain his equipment, and has the leadership skills to maintain morale in combat. As the son of a vintner he has a surprisingly refined palate regarding wine.

      The wizard has detailed knowledge about the arcane, astronomy and astrology, speaks several languages (especially ancient ones), and knows his way around myth and legend. Coming from a culture of sailors, he has a basic understanding of how to operate a boat and navigate on the sea.

      The social character is a formally trained courtesan. Along with weapons-grade charisma, she has skills in seduction, rhetoric, games, singing and dancing, plus a broad but shallow education that ahead allows her to maintain light conversation on any topic. A weak fighter, she excels at any kind of social interaction.

      The last character is a dwarf who lists his occupation as “craftsman”. He likes to take things apart. Like locks, traps, mechanisms, doors, or people who get handsy with the courtesan. He also knows how to treat wounds, diseases, and poison, stemming from when he was a healer’s apprentice.

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      its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      wrote on last edited by
      #22

      This is why I take into account class and background before setting a DC when I run D&D. That’s my back end way to try and apply this subjectivity to skills.

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      • bedbugcutlefish@lemmy.worldB bedbugcutlefish@lemmy.world

        Rogues aren’t really designed to be good at everything, they are designed to be very good at a few skills (in 5e). Bards are the ‘generalists’ (which, imo. is blatantly OP considering they are also good spell-casters).

        PF2e is where they just kinda get all the skills (along with investigators).

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        its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        wrote on last edited by
        #23

        Bards wouldn’t exist without rogues. They’re just a symptom of the problem.

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        • bedbugcutlefish@lemmy.worldB bedbugcutlefish@lemmy.world

          If you were playing Bilbo in DnD 5e, the class that makes the most sense to give bilbo is Rogue. Commoner isn’t a class; bilbo could only be one if he was an NPC.

          Does he exactly map onto the DnD rogue chassis? No, he doesn’t, but he maps worse onto every other class.

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          HobbitFoot
          wrote on last edited by
          #24

          I’d argue you could map Bilbo into a multiclass rogue and bard to get spells like Vicious Mockery. Bilbo’s main actions in “combat” include stealth checks, sneak attacks with Sting, stealing items, and using bardic spells to manipulate the situation for his benefit.

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          • I its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone

            Im not saying the Rogue is the best at everything. I’m saying the Rogue is good at everything. You can take a class and replicate some of the stuff a rogue can do, but usually that means not being as good at other things. Rogues don’t have to make that choice. That’s why I don’t like rogues. A wizard could be the face and a damage dealer, but they can’t be the tank at the same time even though it’s possible for you to make a tank wizard. A ranger can be good at stealth and fighting, but that would probably make them a bad face. With each other class there is a trade off. Rogues as a class are a bunch of desperate parts slapped together and called a class.

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            HobbitFoot
            wrote on last edited by
            #25

            A rogue makes a very poor tank compared to other classes.

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            • H HobbitFoot

              A rogue makes a very poor tank compared to other classes.

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              its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              wrote on last edited by
              #26

              A rogue isn’t the best tank, but that again isn’t my argument.

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              • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                explodicle@sh.itjust.works
                wrote on last edited by
                #27

                Wizards: let’s compare notes

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                • H HobbitFoot

                  I’d argue you could map Bilbo into a multiclass rogue and bard to get spells like Vicious Mockery. Bilbo’s main actions in “combat” include stealth checks, sneak attacks with Sting, stealing items, and using bardic spells to manipulate the situation for his benefit.

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                  its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #28

                  Do all hobbits have to be a little rogue? Because in Tolkien’s stories hobbits being stealthy isn’t a skill it’s a species ability.

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                  • I its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                    Do all hobbits have to be a little rogue? Because in Tolkien’s stories hobbits being stealthy isn’t a skill it’s a species ability.

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                    jayjader@jlai.lu
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #29

                    Kinda like how in early versions of D&D elf and dwarf were classes.

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                    • J jayjader@jlai.lu

                      Kinda like how in early versions of D&D elf and dwarf were classes.

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                      its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #30

                      So you think all hobbits have to be lvl 1 rogues?

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                      • I its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                        So you think all hobbits have to be lvl 1 rogues?

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                        jayjader@jlai.lu
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #31

                        Not at all, merely sharing a parallel I just realized/remembered.

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                        • J jayjader@jlai.lu

                          Not at all, merely sharing a parallel I just realized/remembered.

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                          its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #32

                          Sorry, new here. Still having trouble keeping track of who said what, and who I’m quarreling with.

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                          • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                            dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #33

                            NGL, as a DM, multiple players with backstabbing abilities are a big problem to overcome. The odds begin to stack up in favor of the party. You start looking for monsters with the awareness of a beholder, but just a tad less lethal.

                            Then the mage starts hurling fireballs to remind you that you also need more fireproof options.

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                            • I its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                              Sorry, new here. Still having trouble keeping track of who said what, and who I’m quarreling with.

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                              jayjader@jlai.lu
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #34

                              No problem! I’ve been here almost 2 years and I still get confused from time to time.

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