Idk, I feel like landlords would just jack prices by whatever the ubi payments are. Ubi is a good idea for sure, but it’s only a piece.

Cheated, stolen it, and had other people break their bodies to “earn” it.

We’re about to see trillionaires in our lifetime, which is obscene. Cap wealth so the hoarding can stop.

I disagree with the extreme measure, posit that a less extreme measure would work just as well or better, and await any kind of data and proper analysis to support your point of view like I have already done.

I will not continue the conversation otherwise, so take care of yourself if you choose to respond differently.

Controlled rent would also be fantastic and has worked in economically diffuclt times like COVID. I don’t see why it wouldn’t work again during the recession we are spiralling towards.

Until it is peer reviewed and points out the glaring errors, which will promptly be ignored.

To be fair, if 8% exits the labour market that would have a pretty severe economic effect, no?

Controlled rent is better than uncontrolled rent, but it suffers from the same problems as minimum wage. And why should landlords even exist? I’m not convinced private rentals should be legal at all. If you’re not using a property for personal use or a place of business, why shouldn’t it be seized and auctioned or rented publicly?

Who said anything about ‘fuck you I got mine?’

First of all Canada already has a TON of social supports for anyone who is in need. We have Employment Insurance if you lose your job. We have Old Age Security and Canada Pension Plan for seniors. We have Child Tax Credits for parents and especially single parents. We have the GST credit to give back taxes to low income earners. We have the Canada Workers Benefit. We have the Canada Disability Benefit. We have the Assured Income for Severely Handicapped. We have disability pensions. We have Universal Pharmacare for prescription drugs. We have housing benefits/social housing programs. We have the Canadian Dental Benefit. We have student aid. There are free food banks in every city. And there are emergency funds available for things like rent/damage deposits on an emergency basis from every province through various community agencies, charities, and non-profit organizations.

So WHY do we need UBI on top of all that? If you need help in Canada, you CAN find it. Its already here.

Source: I founded a charity for street kids in one of our major cities thats been operating for 33 years. There is a TON of support out there. The fact is that a LOT of the people on the street know how to use and abuse the system and they dont WANT to get out of it because its what they grew up in and what they are accustomed to. I speak from years of experience.

You’re looking at one tax. If you look at ALL Canadian taxes, income tax, provincial taxes, sales tax, import taxes, fuel taxes, property taxes, health services taxes, business taxes Canadians actually pay about HALF of their gross income in taxes. We are f’n taxed to death in Canada.

Agreed and let me say, I’m probably privileged enough to be seriously affected by tax increases if UBI was instituted. However, as a person with average empathy, do you think I’d prefer being slightly less privileged, or walking around and seeing everyone miserable and stressed the hell out all the time? I’m always amazed that there is any difference of opinion, especially when most Republicans would stand to gain at the expense of people like me.

Show your work, please. I’m pretty sure it’s closer to 25-30%.

Edit: confirmed. I did the math. It’s closer to 35% for most people. Including income tax, sales tax, and property tax.

You wouldn’t get UBI “on top of all that”.

You’d get it instead of all that.

Assuming this was supposed to reply to my response (you’re just responding directly to the main post FYI).

Canadians actually pay about HALF of their gross income in taxes

I haven’t ever heard a number this big. Where did you get this from, and how does it compare to other countries?

I don’t disagree - we’re taxed more than the US, but that comes with things like single-payer healthcare and higher regulatory enforcement. GST, for example, isn’t something collected in the US meaning they only have the effective PST component of our sales tax, which varies widely by municipality to municipality, but is quite a bit less.

I imagine it would improve wages as employers would need to properly incentivise people to return to those jobs. Probably why UBI hasn’t made it past a trial yet.

This is an untrue statistic often trotted out by the Conservative Frasier Institute. Canadians think we’re taxed far more than we are, because public opinion has been manipulated to believe so. Average Canadian pays about one third of income to taxes - creeping up as you move up taxes brackets

Many middle class Canadian pay 25% or more just in income tax. Then you have to add sales taxes, property taxes, and the rest.

I would say he is about right.

The top income tax bracket is over 50%. If you are very high income, you can pay well over 30% just in income tax (overall).

For anybody that does not understand progressive income tax brackets, a top rate of 50% does not mean you pay 50% on all income. You pay nothing to a certain point, pay a lower percentage up to a certain level, and then it goes up on what you make beyond that level. On the 30,000th dollar you make, you might pay 25 cents tax. On the 200,000th dollar, you might pay 53 cents. On your first dollar, you pay nothing.

Socialists refuse to pay taxes? Don’t you mean rich people?

I don’t get your math. Here in BC my property tax is about $1500 on a 2 bedroom condo. Maybe 1-2% of my income. With deductions my tax is about 13% since my wife doesn’t earn a huge amount but even if single it might be 20%, there is no health insurance fee as its baked into taxes. We aren’t paying PST on food. So your claim is my other 15-20% tax means I’m paying 30% tax on everything else I buy?

Thankfully BC doesnt do sales tax on food (even at a restaurant) and property tax is super cheap here. Ours is about $1500 on a 600k place. My tax rate is about 22-26% but with deductions it would be more like 20%, and spouse earns less and other deductions so 13% owing. But even at 20% there is no way another 30% is additional tax

Choosing the right level of income is the key for UBI to work, it has to be enough to live and survive but not so much that a recipient can enjoy luxury. Most people like to contribute to society, being is social is how humans are so dominant as a species.

Most people will contribute to the economy if they can, because it supports ambition, better lifestyle but it doesn’t put pressure to worry about where today’s food is going to be, people take more risks, be more entrepreneurial, explore more curiosity, explore new ideas, people spend time on acquiring more useful skills.

A mentally healthy mind is not entirely lazy. Being lazy perpetually reflects a deeper problem that is psychological to some degree such as having no hope or not being able to Imagine a happy future, or feeling helpless. Mentally healthy people want to contribute to society.

Economy as a whole will expand, which will pay in turn for UBI. First few years of UBI might be heavier on tax payers of the old system, but in long term UBI will lead to better economy. Question is not who is going to pay for it, question is can people agree to pay more out of their own pocket now for a better future for everyone? OR are we doomed as a species by exploiting our own kind?