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  3. Baldur's Gate 3 dev says AAA is "perversely fascinated" by indie games, because those devs still understand how to make good ideas that aren't reliant on data

Baldur's Gate 3 dev says AAA is "perversely fascinated" by indie games, because those devs still understand how to make good ideas that aren't reliant on data

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  • oce 🐆O oce 🐆

    I will give you that the first iteration of a series, like Mario Kart, is innovative, but the 16 next iterations, not so much. While Nintendo doesn’t make Pokemon, they are the publishers, technical platform provider and co-owner of the Pokemon Company, they would have all the leverage necessary to push the Pokemon games to innovate if they were interested in innovation.

    L This user is from outside of this forum
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    lobut@lemmy.ca
    wrote on last edited by
    #79

    What do you mean by first iteration of a series? Do you mean the first entry into the franchise?

    I mean we can argue about the degree you can change a go-kart game but I think Nintendo does try different things. Mario Kart 64 was 3D with 4 players, Mario Kart DS did online play, Double Dash did the two drivers in one kart. Mario Kart Wii did motion controls. Mario Kart World Tour (I haven’t tried) but it has this open world driving concept, I think?

    They also do milk their IP and they do release a lot of sequels like Mario Party and such.

    However, at the same time Nintendo takes risks with their console/games like no other, I feel.

    I won’t back their legal strategies though, I don’t think anybody should.

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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      omarfw@lemmy.world
      wrote on last edited by omarfw@lemmy.world
      #80

      Corpos can’t make good games because they’re sociopaths who don’t understand art, only products. Understanding art requires a functioning connection to humanity and emotions, which they lack.

      Games aren’t only products; they’re art. Good art is not capable of universal appeal. The more demographics you try to appeal to for the sake of appeasing your shareholder overlords, the more dogshit your game will be.

      Games made to support the interests of mentally ill rich people cannot be well made categorically. This is why AAA has sucked ever since wall street took over every studio.

      M 1 Reply Last reply
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      • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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        budgetbandit@sh.itjust.works
        wrote on last edited by
        #81

        Remember when they said “we’re unable to make a game like BG3 consistently” and then 2 years later ClairObscure Expedition 33 releases, made by even less people than BG3.

        Those games aren’t AAA, they’re S+ games.

        W 1 Reply Last reply
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        • B budgetbandit@sh.itjust.works

          Remember when they said “we’re unable to make a game like BG3 consistently” and then 2 years later ClairObscure Expedition 33 releases, made by even less people than BG3.

          Those games aren’t AAA, they’re S+ games.

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          whitebrow@lemmy.world
          wrote on last edited by
          #82

          A reminder that AA-AAA is basically just specifying how much money has been poured into its development. Not how much love, passion and hard work went into creating it.

          Baldurs gate 3 is made by an indie game studio.

          As in they’re independent and are not beholden to a publisher or external revenue sources that own their idea and forces them to take business decisions they don’t want to due to monetary reasons and outside pressure.

          And yes, absolutely S+ tier games.

          O blackmist@feddit.ukB 2 Replies Last reply
          16
          • Lvxferre [he/him]L Lvxferre [he/him]

            They also miss really bad why those games become popular on first place.

            For example, the text mentions Minecraft, and all that “crafting” trend. What made Minecraft great was not crafting - it was the feeling that you’re free to express yourself, the way you want, through interactions with the ingame world. If you want to build a huge castle, recreate a wonder you love, or a clever contraption to bend the world’s rules to do your bidding, you can.

            Or, let’s pick Undertale. It’s all about the mood, the game pulls strings with your emotions. Right at the start the game shows you Toriel, she’s a really nice lady, taking care of you as if she was your child. And being overprotective. Then the game tries to make you kill her, and your first playthrough you’ll probably do it. And you’ll feel like shit. Then you load the save back, and… the game still remembers. You’re still feeling like shit because you killed Toriel.

            Stardew Valley? At a certain point of the game, you start to genuinely care about the characters. Not just as in-game characters, but as virtual people with their own backstories, goals, dreams. You relate to them.

            It’s all about feelings. But corporations are as soulless as their “art”; and game corporations are no exception. Individual humans get it.

            noobdoomguy8658@feddit.orgN This user is from outside of this forum
            noobdoomguy8658@feddit.orgN This user is from outside of this forum
            noobdoomguy8658@feddit.org
            wrote on last edited by
            #83

            Reminds of how Delta Heavy - Ghost got recommended to many people on YouTube recently, because the ever-present soulless algorithm detected people mentioning Clippy, engaging with videos mentioning Clippy, putting Clippies as their profile pictures, etc. - despite the fact that the entire Clippy surge is entirely against the endless data vacuuming and the algorithmisation of everything.

            I really hate what data has become for the modern consumer at large - something’s everybody after to try and capitalize for, at an active disadvantage for you.

            Cue the still growing thirst for more control, more data, more censorship.

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            • O omarfw@lemmy.world

              Corpos can’t make good games because they’re sociopaths who don’t understand art, only products. Understanding art requires a functioning connection to humanity and emotions, which they lack.

              Games aren’t only products; they’re art. Good art is not capable of universal appeal. The more demographics you try to appeal to for the sake of appeasing your shareholder overlords, the more dogshit your game will be.

              Games made to support the interests of mentally ill rich people cannot be well made categorically. This is why AAA has sucked ever since wall street took over every studio.

              M This user is from outside of this forum
              M This user is from outside of this forum
              monogram@feddit.nl
              wrote on last edited by
              #84

              CandyCrush would like a word

              O 1 Reply Last reply
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              • W whitebrow@lemmy.world

                A reminder that AA-AAA is basically just specifying how much money has been poured into its development. Not how much love, passion and hard work went into creating it.

                Baldurs gate 3 is made by an indie game studio.

                As in they’re independent and are not beholden to a publisher or external revenue sources that own their idea and forces them to take business decisions they don’t want to due to monetary reasons and outside pressure.

                And yes, absolutely S+ tier games.

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                okamiueru@lemmy.world
                wrote on last edited by okamiueru@lemmy.world
                #85

                Number of As also don’t say anything about how skilled the developers/designers/writers are, or to what extent they’ve been allowed to cook without chains or directions.

                A lot of AAA games would have been amazing, if it wasn’t for this meddling. The sad part of it, is that they’ve probably made the shareholders more money because of it. They’ve of course traded in brand value and goodwill for short term profit.

                Consumers still preorder en mass. Buy the always-online single player games with DRM, and micro transaction stores. Then in the same breath, complain about the situation.

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                • M moakley@lemmy.world

                  Donkey Kong Bananza just came out.

                  Mario and Zelda games are constantly innovating.

                  Your complaint doesn’t align with reality.

                  bananaisaberry@lemmy.zipB This user is from outside of this forum
                  bananaisaberry@lemmy.zipB This user is from outside of this forum
                  bananaisaberry@lemmy.zip
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #86

                  Bananza is pretty darn similar to the studio’s last Mario game. Same gameplay loop at its core, but with a DK and map destruction skin thrown on top.

                  M 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • M monogram@feddit.nl

                    CandyCrush would like a word

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                    omarfw@lemmy.world
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #87

                    Candy crush is just another reskin of bejeweled; a game made by an indie developer in the year 2000.

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                    • bananaisaberry@lemmy.zipB bananaisaberry@lemmy.zip

                      Bananza is pretty darn similar to the studio’s last Mario game. Same gameplay loop at its core, but with a DK and map destruction skin thrown on top.

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                      moakley@lemmy.world
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #88

                      map destruction skin thrown on top

                      That doesn’t make sense if you think about it for a second. The entire game is designed around the destructible environments. One of the reasons it’s so good is that they use the interior of the landscape. And the gameplay loop is absolutely different.

                      But Nintendo also gets credit for Super Mario Galaxy; you’re right about that.

                      bananaisaberry@lemmy.zipB 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • M moakley@lemmy.world

                        map destruction skin thrown on top

                        That doesn’t make sense if you think about it for a second. The entire game is designed around the destructible environments. One of the reasons it’s so good is that they use the interior of the landscape. And the gameplay loop is absolutely different.

                        But Nintendo also gets credit for Super Mario Galaxy; you’re right about that.

                        bananaisaberry@lemmy.zipB This user is from outside of this forum
                        bananaisaberry@lemmy.zipB This user is from outside of this forum
                        bananaisaberry@lemmy.zip
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #89

                        It’s a meaningful difference, but it’s still, at its core, “go into level, do little challenges to find a thing and progress the story”, except this time it’s banana instead of star.

                        M 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • bananaisaberry@lemmy.zipB bananaisaberry@lemmy.zip

                          It’s a meaningful difference, but it’s still, at its core, “go into level, do little challenges to find a thing and progress the story”, except this time it’s banana instead of star.

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                          moakley@lemmy.world
                          wrote on last edited by moakley@lemmy.world
                          #90

                          Next you’ll tell me they both have jumping!

                          I mean that’s all really high level stuff.

                          bananaisaberry@lemmy.zipB 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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                            ZeroOneM This user is from outside of this forum
                            ZeroOneM This user is from outside of this forum
                            ZeroOne
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #91

                            Or “Ultra Realistic Graphics”

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                            • M moakley@lemmy.world

                              Next you’ll tell me they both have jumping!

                              I mean that’s all really high level stuff.

                              bananaisaberry@lemmy.zipB This user is from outside of this forum
                              bananaisaberry@lemmy.zipB This user is from outside of this forum
                              bananaisaberry@lemmy.zip
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #92

                              I’m not saying you can’t enjoy the game but it’s not that different from Super Mario Odyssey. Its from the same development team, and you can clearly see they have a certain design that works.

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                              • T the_v@lemmy.world

                                The cycle of megacorps- this works in most industries with a lower barrier of entry.

                                First the industry begins as a bunch of small competing startups that build a shit ton of absolute trash. Eventually a few companies find the right formula and start to find some medicum of success. Innovation is rapid but quality is low.

                                Next the industry consolidates in a feeding frenzy of mergers and aqisitions. During this time innovation is high but demands for quality is also high. New startups are constant as the forming megacorps pay high prices to control innovation or suppress competition.

                                Then the consolidation reaches a peak. At this point innovation almost completely ceases as megacorps refuse to pay out any more. Quality rapidly decreases as the few remaining megacorps try to maximize profits. The entire industry turns to shit products and high prices.

                                The only thing that can save the industry from stagnation is government anti-trust action breaking up the megacorps into smaller competing companies like in the second stage.

                                PHLAKP This user is from outside of this forum
                                PHLAKP This user is from outside of this forum
                                PHLAK
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #93

                                Capitalism.

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • W whitebrow@lemmy.world

                                  A reminder that AA-AAA is basically just specifying how much money has been poured into its development. Not how much love, passion and hard work went into creating it.

                                  Baldurs gate 3 is made by an indie game studio.

                                  As in they’re independent and are not beholden to a publisher or external revenue sources that own their idea and forces them to take business decisions they don’t want to due to monetary reasons and outside pressure.

                                  And yes, absolutely S+ tier games.

                                  blackmist@feddit.ukB This user is from outside of this forum
                                  blackmist@feddit.ukB This user is from outside of this forum
                                  blackmist@feddit.uk
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #94

                                  Seeing Ubisoft describe Far Cry 6 as AAAA made a mockery of the whole A-rating system anyway. It never really meant anything other than “erm, we’re charging more for it this year”.

                                  W 1 Reply Last reply
                                  4
                                  • blackmist@feddit.ukB blackmist@feddit.uk

                                    Seeing Ubisoft describe Far Cry 6 as AAAA made a mockery of the whole A-rating system anyway. It never really meant anything other than “erm, we’re charging more for it this year”.

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                                    whitebrow@lemmy.world
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #95

                                    Wasn’t that skull and bones?

                                    blackmist@feddit.ukB 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • bananaisaberry@lemmy.zipB bananaisaberry@lemmy.zip

                                      I’m not saying you can’t enjoy the game but it’s not that different from Super Mario Odyssey. Its from the same development team, and you can clearly see they have a certain design that works.

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                                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                                      moakley@lemmy.world
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #96

                                      And I’m not saying you do have to enjoy the game. I’m just saying that you’re starting with the opinion “Nintendo bad” and trying to backfill the reasons, because saying Donkey Kong Bananza isn’t innovative just doesn’t line up with reality. And saying that Nintendo as a whole isn’t innovative is just ridiculous.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • Frenchfryenjoyer (she/her)F Frenchfryenjoyer (she/her)

                                        Indie devs have a vision

                                        triple A games just feel so bland and corporate these days, no passion

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                                        rekorse@sh.itjust.works
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #97

                                        Corporate art will always be underwhelming.

                                        Frenchfryenjoyer (she/her)F B 2 Replies Last reply
                                        2
                                        • R rekorse@sh.itjust.works

                                          Corporate art will always be underwhelming.

                                          Frenchfryenjoyer (she/her)F This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Frenchfryenjoyer (she/her)F This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Frenchfryenjoyer (she/her)
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #98

                                          Yup. Just looks so stiff and uninspired. Part of the reason why I miss those old 3D art character portraits of the early 2000’s, they looked goofy in a good way

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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