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  3. Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud.

Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud.

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  • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

    Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

    You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

    AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

    Reject this future.

    Keep your hardware local.

    Run #Linux.

    Own your data.

    The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

    #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

    Link Preview Image
    Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

    A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

    favicon

    Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

    MillyA This user is from outside of this forum
    MillyA This user is from outside of this forum
    Milly
    wrote last edited by
    #20

    @terminaltilt Good luck with that. There haven't been a real reason to upgrade hardware the last 10 years, and I don't see a need for the coming years either. Unless you want to tinker with ML models and burn the earth. Sure business buys new, people buy new, cause compile time/fps "go brrrr". But if you skew the "go brrr"/cost metric... well, let's say I hope for their sake the AI bubble doesn't do as all of us want and burst like a money eating black hole at a piΓ±ata party.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Grumble πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡¬πŸ‡±G Grumble πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡¬πŸ‡±

      @terminaltilt Feudalism - the serfs work the land, but do not own it. They pay rents for the privilege.

      Techno-feudalism - the knowledge workers labor with computers and software tools, but they do not own either. They pay rent (subscriptions) for the privilege.

      Fuck Bezos and all of his friends.

      Seize the means of computation!

      Rev. Charles BrowningF This user is from outside of this forum
      Rev. Charles BrowningF This user is from outside of this forum
      Rev. Charles Browning
      wrote last edited by
      #21

      @grumble209 @terminaltilt If it hasn't been made yet, I really want a t-shirt (and stickers) with the "Seize the Means of Computation" slogan!

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

        Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

        You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

        AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

        Reject this future.

        Keep your hardware local.

        Run #Linux.

        Own your data.

        The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

        #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

        Link Preview Image
        Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

        A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

        favicon

        Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

        GeraintLlanfranchetaG This user is from outside of this forum
        GeraintLlanfranchetaG This user is from outside of this forum
        GeraintLlanfrancheta
        wrote last edited by
        #22

        @terminaltilt over my dead cold hands, jeff #fuckhyperscalers

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

          Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

          You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

          AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

          Reject this future.

          Keep your hardware local.

          Run #Linux.

          Own your data.

          The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

          #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

          Link Preview Image
          Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

          A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

          favicon

          Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

          xs4me2X This user is from outside of this forum
          xs4me2X This user is from outside of this forum
          xs4me2
          wrote last edited by
          #23

          @terminaltilt

          I wont do it!

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

            Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

            You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

            AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

            Reject this future.

            Keep your hardware local.

            Run #Linux.

            Own your data.

            The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

            #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

            Link Preview Image
            Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

            A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

            favicon

            Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

            I_give_u_wormsI This user is from outside of this forum
            I_give_u_wormsI This user is from outside of this forum
            I_give_u_worms
            wrote last edited by
            #24

            @terminaltilt
            this dude will take business losses long enough to keep competitors heads underwater

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • LichoL Licho

              @terminaltilt the difficult part starts when they jack up the prices of components the way we see it happen with ram. It's artificial, there were analyses that it was bought for money that are not there to be put in graphics cards that don't exist in data centers that aren't built yet in response to demand that is yet to come.

              So they can push us out from the local computation with price. Or at least make it an upper middle class thing.

              I_give_u_wormsI This user is from outside of this forum
              I_give_u_wormsI This user is from outside of this forum
              I_give_u_worms
              wrote last edited by
              #25

              @licho @terminaltilt
              shitty wages have meant people choose, have a phone (the latest phone, because that's what they can figure out, which costs as much as a computer, spread over months or years) and maybe get a tablet/notebook/computer

              IPads turn to a brick over a couple years, they just stop playing videos and slow to a frustrating crawl.

              Android has disabled the data capability of the USB cable for the most part, in order to keep people closer to monthly storage charges.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                Reject this future.

                Keep your hardware local.

                Run #Linux.

                Own your data.

                The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                Link Preview Image
                Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                favicon

                Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                AndrΓ© OurednikA This user is from outside of this forum
                AndrΓ© OurednikA This user is from outside of this forum
                AndrΓ© Ourednik
                wrote last edited by
                #26

                @terminaltilt As much as I abhore anything that Jeff does and represents, I see an environmental point in a rental model. In the sense that ownership of hardware in a programmed obsolescence industry model is ecologically worse. Most people run their daily apps on massively overpowered individual machines, produced at huge environmental cost. And I see potential in sharing hardware here. But definitely not on AWS. Rather local hubs, something like a decentralized network of remote processors

                A_MinionA Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]A Silver OwlS 3 Replies Last reply
                0
                • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                  Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                  You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                  AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                  Reject this future.

                  Keep your hardware local.

                  Run #Linux.

                  Own your data.

                  The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                  #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                  Link Preview Image
                  Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                  A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                  favicon

                  Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                  inamruzui | vessels birthday in 7 daysK This user is from outside of this forum
                  inamruzui | vessels birthday in 7 daysK This user is from outside of this forum
                  inamruzui | vessels birthday in 7 days
                  wrote last edited by
                  #27

                  @terminaltilt there's a reason why I prefer my steamdeck and valve hardware over this bullshit

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • AndrΓ© OurednikA AndrΓ© Ourednik

                    @terminaltilt As much as I abhore anything that Jeff does and represents, I see an environmental point in a rental model. In the sense that ownership of hardware in a programmed obsolescence industry model is ecologically worse. Most people run their daily apps on massively overpowered individual machines, produced at huge environmental cost. And I see potential in sharing hardware here. But definitely not on AWS. Rather local hubs, something like a decentralized network of remote processors

                    A_MinionA This user is from outside of this forum
                    A_MinionA This user is from outside of this forum
                    A_Minion
                    wrote last edited by
                    #28

                    @andre_ourednik @terminaltilt So what you see is basically the same as solar and wind power being produced locally. Personally I like that model far better than the rental idea as it takes power away from the few making it far more democratic for "We The People".

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                      Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                      You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                      AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                      Reject this future.

                      Keep your hardware local.

                      Run #Linux.

                      Own your data.

                      The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                      #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                      Link Preview Image
                      Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                      A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                      favicon

                      Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                      TrimTab πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦T This user is from outside of this forum
                      TrimTab πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦T This user is from outside of this forum
                      TrimTab πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦
                      wrote last edited by
                      #29

                      @terminaltilt Bezos is the alternate universe inverse evil version of Patrick Stewart.... Utterly cruel, greedy, narcissistic, and uncharismatic.

                      Please send Bezos back into the worm hole, to the shitty universe that made him.

                      Aleő RoubíčekA 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                        Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                        You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                        AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                        Reject this future.

                        Keep your hardware local.

                        Run #Linux.

                        Own your data.

                        The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                        #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                        Link Preview Image
                        Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                        A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                        favicon

                        Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                        meek cynicsC This user is from outside of this forum
                        meek cynicsC This user is from outside of this forum
                        meek cynics
                        wrote last edited by
                        #30

                        You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                        Terminal Tilt, this already happened, through the form of applications that are thin clients to SaaSS.

                        Run Linux. :tux:

                        Run :gnu: or something idk, but Linux users are renting computing powers through SaaSS. :android:

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                          Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                          You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                          AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                          Reject this future.

                          Keep your hardware local.

                          Run #Linux.

                          Own your data.

                          The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                          #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                          Link Preview Image
                          Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                          A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                          favicon

                          Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                          hnapelH This user is from outside of this forum
                          hnapelH This user is from outside of this forum
                          hnapel
                          wrote last edited by
                          #31

                          @terminaltilt

                          Never waste a crisis!

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                            Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                            You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                            AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                            Reject this future.

                            Keep your hardware local.

                            Run #Linux.

                            Own your data.

                            The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                            #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                            Link Preview Image
                            Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                            A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                            favicon

                            Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                            Nicovel0 πŸ‰N This user is from outside of this forum
                            Nicovel0 πŸ‰N This user is from outside of this forum
                            Nicovel0 πŸ‰
                            wrote last edited by
                            #32

                            @terminaltilt those people have no new ideas, Bezos just reinvented the mainframe.

                            Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]A 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                              Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                              You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                              AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                              Reject this future.

                              Keep your hardware local.

                              Run #Linux.

                              Own your data.

                              The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                              #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                              Link Preview Image
                              Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                              A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                              favicon

                              Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                              Internet RandoM This user is from outside of this forum
                              Internet RandoM This user is from outside of this forum
                              Internet Rando
                              wrote last edited by
                              #33

                              @terminaltilt When people see me on here saying "Local-first Software Principles should be the fucking law", this is what I'm talking about.

                              #CassandraComplexGoneWild

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                                Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                                You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                                AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                                Reject this future.

                                Keep your hardware local.

                                Run #Linux.

                                Own your data.

                                The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                                #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                                Link Preview Image
                                Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                                A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                                favicon

                                Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                                Michiel PiscaerM This user is from outside of this forum
                                Michiel PiscaerM This user is from outside of this forum
                                Michiel Piscaer
                                wrote last edited by
                                #34

                                @terminaltilt not only that, but how it is going right now. Is that it gives power to the 1%

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                                  Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                                  You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                                  AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                                  Reject this future.

                                  Keep your hardware local.

                                  Run #Linux.

                                  Own your data.

                                  The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                                  #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                                  Link Preview Image
                                  Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                                  A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                                  favicon

                                  Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                                  Lorenzo BonomelliL This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Lorenzo BonomelliL This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Lorenzo Bonomelli
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #35

                                  @terminaltilt
                                  Honestly, I really like cloud computing and cloud storage.
                                  Since we’re almost always connected to the internet, it’s an incredibly useful solution.

                                  I'd be happy to pay a subscription fee if:
                                  1) my data is properly encrypted
                                  2) my data stays on a European server
                                  3) my money doesn't go to a dictatorship country (such as where Bezos lives)
                                  4) the system I'm using is FOSS

                                  S Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]A 2 Replies Last reply
                                  0
                                  • meek cynicsC This user is from outside of this forum
                                    meek cynicsC This user is from outside of this forum
                                    meek cynics
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #36

                                    Already did in that comment, but since I can’t rule out custom emoji inaccessibility issues, Imma spell it out for thee, Snep :floofHappy:: Android Google/Linux.

                                    Cc: Terminal Tilt

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                                      Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                                      You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                                      AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                                      Reject this future.

                                      Keep your hardware local.

                                      Run #Linux.

                                      Own your data.

                                      The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                                      #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                                      Link Preview Image
                                      Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                                      A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                                      favicon

                                      Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                                      JWJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      JWJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      JW
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #37

                                      @terminaltilt
                                      My wife is a very aware and private person, so she doesn't want any of our personal information in the cloud.

                                      As a person who stopped doing hands on tech work 20 years ago, I'm amazed that many of my old Unix skills are still current an suitable to run home systems.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • meek cynicsC This user is from outside of this forum
                                        meek cynicsC This user is from outside of this forum
                                        meek cynics
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #38

                                        Yea Snep :floofHappy:, I was replying to Terminal Tilt who claimed using Linux is a solution against SaaSS, when it’s really about empowering everyone with a free software. Linux is not a politically important part of GNU/Linux distributions (and GNU implementations too for that matter, but at least the GNU project, unlike the Linux Foundation, isn’t advocating for proprietary software and SaaSS). Neither do GNU/Linux distributions hold a significant market share of Linux, most of which being Android that many people are already using.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • Lorenzo BonomelliL Lorenzo Bonomelli

                                          @terminaltilt
                                          Honestly, I really like cloud computing and cloud storage.
                                          Since we’re almost always connected to the internet, it’s an incredibly useful solution.

                                          I'd be happy to pay a subscription fee if:
                                          1) my data is properly encrypted
                                          2) my data stays on a European server
                                          3) my money doesn't go to a dictatorship country (such as where Bezos lives)
                                          4) the system I'm using is FOSS

                                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                                          shadows
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #39

                                          @LorenzoBonomelli @terminaltilt will you still like it if they pass laws that enforce on-device scanning of all data on the internet?

                                          Lorenzo BonomelliL 1 Reply Last reply
                                          0

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