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Wandering Adventure Party

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A lesson so many need to learn

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Pathfinder
rpgmemes
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  • Z ziggurat@jlai.lu

    Out of curiosity, what is the 3 action system?

    I know FATE has 4 actions (overcome, attack, defend, create an advantage) so did PF merge attack and defend? Or is it a different choice?

    D This user is from outside of this forum
    D This user is from outside of this forum
    dahgangalang@infosec.pub
    wrote last edited by
    #137

    Other guy gave an okey explanation, but to try my hand at explaining:

    On a typical round of combat, you get three actions. You can spend them in a variety of ways. An attack is one action, movement (“stride” action) is one action, most offensive spells are 2 actions, etc.

    A lot of classes get ways to “discount” actions. For example an early feat fighters and barbarians can take is “Sudden Charge” which let’s them stride twice and attack an adjacent creature and costs 2 actions.

    The whole thing lends so much freedom and takes a lot of burden off the DM for needing to homebrew / make up things on the fly. The whole system is very crunchy though (very detailed and particular on its rules) and so doesn’t fit everyone’s vibes.

    1 Reply Last reply
    1
    • StametsS Stamets

      Nah dude. You have literally nothing to apologize for. It’s all on me for not thinking first and not even waking up first before commenting. I can be bitchy as hell before all the gears are grinding properly and I definitely didn’t hold the leash on that one.

      Don’t apologize. It’s all on me. I’m sorry buddy.

      southsamuraiS This user is from outside of this forum
      southsamuraiS This user is from outside of this forum
      southsamurai
      wrote last edited by
      #138

      You sound like me!

      We have a household rule: don’t talk to south until he’s awake. How can you tell he’s awake? Has he been moving for at least an hour? If yes, then he may be awake, but there’s no promises. If not, then treat him like you would a manbearpig freshly out of hibernation.

      The grunts and croaks that pass as communication from me that first bit are a passable caveman shtick.

      StametsS 1 Reply Last reply
      1
      • KichaeK Kichae

        alexanderthedead@lemmy.world said in A lesson so many need to learn:

        Anyone who wants to make the claim that the system is bad will have bang their subjective arguments against the steel wall that is its popularity.

        Yes, but this is a thing that people want to do. They want to try and dent that popularity, and they want to shift some of it towards their own preferences. It doesn’t matter that it’s a subjective opinion on what is better or what is bad, it doesn’t feel subjective to the person interjecting.

        They believe their preferred game is better, they probably have had this discussion numerous times with people who have ignored them or chewed them out for trying to evangelize, and they are infinitely frustrated that others won’t see the light.

        People who leave popular things behind for niche things often just have this habit of having to bury the thing they left behind. It can’t be good. The new thing is better, but the new thing is better both because it is better, and also because the old thing was just objectively bad.

        People do this with a lot of things. TV shows, ice cream flavours, toys they used to play with as kids. There’s a sense of shame attached to having liked the old thing, not just a sense of joy of having found the new one. It’s one of the reasons the people they evangelize to get so defensive: They can sense that they are being judged.

        A This user is from outside of this forum
        A This user is from outside of this forum
        alexanderthedead@lemmy.world
        wrote last edited by
        #139

        Your formatting broke btw

        KichaeK 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • 5 5too@lemmy.world

          Ironsworn was my first exposure to a fiction-first game! I didn’t really gel with the setting, but still really like the mechanics. Ended up backing Starforged (and later Sundered Isles), that seems like a much better fit for me!

          M This user is from outside of this forum
          M This user is from outside of this forum
          morgoth_bauglir@lemmy.world
          wrote last edited by
          #140

          Ours as well! It’s taking some getting used to, but we’re having a blast! I’ve been considering running my own solo campaign with star forged, hopefully I can get that started soon

          1 Reply Last reply
          1
          • StametsS Stamets
            This post did not contain any content.
            phase@lemmy.8th.worldP This user is from outside of this forum
            phase@lemmy.8th.worldP This user is from outside of this forum
            phase@lemmy.8th.world
            wrote last edited by
            #141

            Stop replacing TTRPG by DnD and I would be fine 😜

            1 Reply Last reply
            5
            • southsamuraiS southsamurai

              You sound like me!

              We have a household rule: don’t talk to south until he’s awake. How can you tell he’s awake? Has he been moving for at least an hour? If yes, then he may be awake, but there’s no promises. If not, then treat him like you would a manbearpig freshly out of hibernation.

              The grunts and croaks that pass as communication from me that first bit are a passable caveman shtick.

              StametsS This user is from outside of this forum
              StametsS This user is from outside of this forum
              Stamets
              wrote last edited by
              #142

              Not too dissimilar here. Roommate has learned to avoid me at all costs until my tone of voice doesn’t sound like a serial killer. I thought a cpap machine would help with that part of my sleep habits too. It did not.

              1 Reply Last reply
              1
              • F frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                If anything, I feel like Pf2e is more streamlined than DnD5e overall. At the very least, everything is in just one book.

                The way critical success/fail works is better, too. Rolling a nat 20 doesn’t automatically make an unskilled character super good at something, and rolling a nat 1 doesn’t make a super skilled character fumble it completely.

                K This user is from outside of this forum
                K This user is from outside of this forum
                kattfisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                wrote last edited by
                #143

                Well there are no crits on checks in 5e, so a nat 20 +0 is no different from a nat 6 +14. And someone with a +14 can’t fail a check with a DC of 15 or lower.

                Having Degrees of Success built into the system in PF2 is really neat though. And seems like something DnD could easily incorporate if Wizards had any vision.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU underpantsweevil@lemmy.world

                  I think part of the problem is that 5e is so pervasive and baked into the “people who play TTRPGs” population that you need to sell them on why 5e isn’t good before you can get them to consider why your alternative is good.

                  Frankly, I’m a White Wolf die-hard. I love Exalted. I love Werewolf. I love Mage. I tolerate Vampire. But as soon as I show someone a set of d10s and try to talk them out of the idea of “Leveling” they get scared and run back to the system they’re familiar with. I also have a special place in my heart for Rollmaster/Hackmaster/Palladium and the endless reams of % charts for every conceivable thing. And then there’s Mechwarrior… who doesn’t love DMing a game where each model on the board has to track it’s heat exhaust per round? But by god! The setting is so fucking cool! (Yes, I know about Lancer).

                  I will freely admit that these systems aren’t necessarily “better” than 5e (or the d20 super-system generally speaking). But they all have their own charms. The trick is that selling some fresh new face on that glorious story climax in which three different Traditions of Magi harmonize their foci and thereby metaphorically harmonize fundamental concepts of society is hard to do on its face. By contrast, complaining about the generic grind of a dice-rolling dungeon crawl is pretty straightforward and easy.

                  K This user is from outside of this forum
                  K This user is from outside of this forum
                  kattfisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  wrote last edited by
                  #144

                  If you lead with “Thing you like is actually bad”, their immediate response will be to disagree with you and start defending the thing they like. And if you want someone to listen to your arguments, rather than just try to poke holes in them, you must avoid putting them on the defensive.

                  To get through to people, find common ground and build off that. “If you like FEATURE in GAME, you’ll probably love SIMILAR FEATURE in OTHER GAME because…” is something that’s actually going to get someone interested, rather than start a pointless argument 🙂

                  underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU 1 Reply Last reply
                  1
                  • StametsS Stamets
                    This post did not contain any content.
                    I Cast FistI This user is from outside of this forum
                    I Cast FistI This user is from outside of this forum
                    I Cast Fist
                    wrote last edited by
                    #145

                    I personally prefer Warhammer Fantasy (either 2e or 4e), I think it contrasts to DnD like Dark Souls to Diablo. Armor is damage reduction instead of damage avoidance, everyone has access to a number of combat maneuvers, magic is limited and dangerous, every combat is dangerous and healing is limited.

                    Brave Little Hitachi WandG 1 Reply Last reply
                    5
                    • J jjjalljs@ttrpg.network

                      try to talk them out of the idea of “Leveling” they get scared and run back to the system they’re familiar with.

                      I still think about the time in college I tried to get a D&D friend to consider Mage. I was telling him about how you can just do magic, and the real limitation is paradox and hubris. Like, it’s often not about ‘can you?’ but rather “should you?”

                      He couldn’t get over “you can just cast whatever you want? Fireballs every turn?”

                      “Yes, but that’s probably going to make a lot of paradox, and probably isn’t the best way to solve your problem”

                      “Sounds broken,” he said, and lost interest.

                      I Cast FistI This user is from outside of this forum
                      I Cast FistI This user is from outside of this forum
                      I Cast Fist
                      wrote last edited by
                      #146

                      The main problem with magic in Mage is that you need a LOT of rule knowledge to even know what the fuck you can cast, especially if you mix different spheres. Your friend might’ve dodged a bullet, but for the wrong reason 😆

                      J 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • A archpawn@lemmy.world

                        Mutants and Masterminds is kind of interesting. I like how it’s designed so character creation is entirely point buy. There’s no classes. No spells. You pay for skills and abilities directly. There’s basic powers, and modifiers you can use to make them more interesting. It’s also geared towards balance as opposed to simulation, which means you can make whatever type of character you want instead of having to stick with what’s optimal.

                        Unfortunately, it’s not well-done. For example, they frequently forget the game uses a log scale and cut numbers in half. Someone with a Dodge rank of -2 who is Vulnerable has their active defenses halved, which brings their Dodge rank up to -1. Equipment is 3 to 4 times cheaper than Devices, with the only differences being flavor (Equipment is something a normal person can get) and a different method of calculating Toughness that very often makes Equipment stronger. I ended up making a list of house rules trying to fix all of them (and admittedly including a few alternate rules that aren’t clearly better or worse) that’s so long that it would probably be easier to make a new RPG.

                        I don’t suppose I can get any advice on something I would like? My requirements are:

                        1. A point buy system that lets you make any character you want.
                        2. Costs are based on making characters balanced, and not how literally expensive a piece of equipment would be and that sort of thing.
                        3. Must be balanced as far as reasonably possible without massive flaws like M&M.
                        4. I’d really like having a wide variety of characters you can make and things you can do. Make it so you can just play a Swarm, or a character of any size class, or anything else you can think of.

                        EDIT:

                        1. Must be free. I’m not going to pay $20 for a system I don’t even know I’ll like. And honestly, I’m too cheap to pay for anything I don’t really need.
                        I Cast FistI This user is from outside of this forum
                        I Cast FistI This user is from outside of this forum
                        I Cast Fist
                        wrote last edited by
                        #147

                        Maybe try GURPS + Supers suplement?

                        A 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • I Cast FistI I Cast Fist

                          The main problem with magic in Mage is that you need a LOT of rule knowledge to even know what the fuck you can cast, especially if you mix different spheres. Your friend might’ve dodged a bullet, but for the wrong reason 😆

                          J This user is from outside of this forum
                          J This user is from outside of this forum
                          jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
                          wrote last edited by
                          #148

                          I think Mage: The Awakening 2nd edition was a cleaner version of the game, but yeah no version is something you can just phone in.

                          I ran a game of it a year or so back, and one player just refused to read the book in any detail. She was always frustrated by not knowing what she could do, or how to do it effectively.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          1
                          • K kattfisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                            If you lead with “Thing you like is actually bad”, their immediate response will be to disagree with you and start defending the thing they like. And if you want someone to listen to your arguments, rather than just try to poke holes in them, you must avoid putting them on the defensive.

                            To get through to people, find common ground and build off that. “If you like FEATURE in GAME, you’ll probably love SIMILAR FEATURE in OTHER GAME because…” is something that’s actually going to get someone interested, rather than start a pointless argument 🙂

                            underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU This user is from outside of this forum
                            underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU This user is from outside of this forum
                            underpantsweevil@lemmy.world
                            wrote last edited by
                            #149

                            If you lead with “Thing you like is actually bad”

                            Why would you assume the critiques are of things they like? 5e has plenty of widely recognized flaws.

                            To get through to people, find common ground and build off that.

                            Often, simply catering to people’s priors means never leaving their comfort zone.

                            KichaeK K 2 Replies Last reply
                            0
                            • I Cast FistI I Cast Fist

                              I personally prefer Warhammer Fantasy (either 2e or 4e), I think it contrasts to DnD like Dark Souls to Diablo. Armor is damage reduction instead of damage avoidance, everyone has access to a number of combat maneuvers, magic is limited and dangerous, every combat is dangerous and healing is limited.

                              Brave Little Hitachi WandG This user is from outside of this forum
                              Brave Little Hitachi WandG This user is from outside of this forum
                              Brave Little Hitachi Wand
                              wrote last edited by
                              #150

                              I played that a few times. I love the early game lethality and gritty realism. I’ve heard Mörk Borg (sp?) is carrying that torch nowadays, have been meaning to try it.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              1
                              • underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU underpantsweevil@lemmy.world

                                If you lead with “Thing you like is actually bad”

                                Why would you assume the critiques are of things they like? 5e has plenty of widely recognized flaws.

                                To get through to people, find common ground and build off that.

                                Often, simply catering to people’s priors means never leaving their comfort zone.

                                KichaeK Online
                                KichaeK Online
                                Kichae
                                Forum Master
                                wrote last edited by
                                #151

                                Sute, but the thing they like is “D&D”, and D&D isn’t just a game anymore, it’s an identity signifier. Pointing people to other games before establishing yourself as firmly not attacking their identity is going to trigger a fight.

                                underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • A alexanderthedead@lemmy.world

                                  Your formatting broke btw

                                  KichaeK Online
                                  KichaeK Online
                                  Kichae
                                  Forum Master
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #152

                                  Aye. NodeBB and Lemmy have a couple of rough edges here and there.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • A archpawn@lemmy.world

                                    Mutants and Masterminds is kind of interesting. I like how it’s designed so character creation is entirely point buy. There’s no classes. No spells. You pay for skills and abilities directly. There’s basic powers, and modifiers you can use to make them more interesting. It’s also geared towards balance as opposed to simulation, which means you can make whatever type of character you want instead of having to stick with what’s optimal.

                                    Unfortunately, it’s not well-done. For example, they frequently forget the game uses a log scale and cut numbers in half. Someone with a Dodge rank of -2 who is Vulnerable has their active defenses halved, which brings their Dodge rank up to -1. Equipment is 3 to 4 times cheaper than Devices, with the only differences being flavor (Equipment is something a normal person can get) and a different method of calculating Toughness that very often makes Equipment stronger. I ended up making a list of house rules trying to fix all of them (and admittedly including a few alternate rules that aren’t clearly better or worse) that’s so long that it would probably be easier to make a new RPG.

                                    I don’t suppose I can get any advice on something I would like? My requirements are:

                                    1. A point buy system that lets you make any character you want.
                                    2. Costs are based on making characters balanced, and not how literally expensive a piece of equipment would be and that sort of thing.
                                    3. Must be balanced as far as reasonably possible without massive flaws like M&M.
                                    4. I’d really like having a wide variety of characters you can make and things you can do. Make it so you can just play a Swarm, or a character of any size class, or anything else you can think of.

                                    EDIT:

                                    1. Must be free. I’m not going to pay $20 for a system I don’t even know I’ll like. And honestly, I’m too cheap to pay for anything I don’t really need.
                                    Brave Little Hitachi WandG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Brave Little Hitachi WandG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Brave Little Hitachi Wand
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #153

                                    Oooh, have you heard of Wild Talents? It has everything on your wishlist. It’s possible to create overpowered abilities, but you’d have to set out to specifically do that - and the GM would then have to say yes to it. If you’re trying to be OP in a sneaky way, it’s just not gonna happen.

                                    A 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • KichaeK Kichae

                                      Sute, but the thing they like is “D&D”, and D&D isn’t just a game anymore, it’s an identity signifier. Pointing people to other games before establishing yourself as firmly not attacking their identity is going to trigger a fight.

                                      underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU This user is from outside of this forum
                                      underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU This user is from outside of this forum
                                      underpantsweevil@lemmy.world
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #154

                                      D&D isn’t just a game anymore, it’s an identity signifier

                                      Which is part of the problem. Like talking to someone who only drinks Coca-Cola about trying a new bag of tea you brought over.

                                      attacking their identity

                                      If you’ve wedded yourself so deeply to the brand that you feel attacked whenever someone levels a critique, you’re probably not mature enough to be at my table.

                                      KichaeK 1 Reply Last reply
                                      1
                                      • underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU underpantsweevil@lemmy.world

                                        D&D isn’t just a game anymore, it’s an identity signifier

                                        Which is part of the problem. Like talking to someone who only drinks Coca-Cola about trying a new bag of tea you brought over.

                                        attacking their identity

                                        If you’ve wedded yourself so deeply to the brand that you feel attacked whenever someone levels a critique, you’re probably not mature enough to be at my table.

                                        KichaeK Online
                                        KichaeK Online
                                        Kichae
                                        Forum Master
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #155

                                        Ok, but these discussions aren’t happening at you’re table. “Well, fuck them then” isn’t exactly helpful.

                                        underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • KichaeK Kichae

                                          Ok, but these discussions aren’t happening at you’re table. “Well, fuck them then” isn’t exactly helpful.

                                          underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU This user is from outside of this forum
                                          underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU This user is from outside of this forum
                                          underpantsweevil@lemmy.world
                                          wrote last edited by underpantsweevil@lemmy.world
                                          #156

                                          “Well, fuck them then”

                                          Isn’t what I said. But if that’s what you’ve heard, you’re illustrating my point.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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