@Fonant @david_chisnall You Are Wrong. The government can seize your computer and *then* search it, if you did something else. Consider why rape prosecutions in the UK collapsed since 2018—cops routinely seized and searched rape victims' phones for evidence of contact with the alleged rapist before or after the incident, so they stopped coming forward.

@oschonrock
I'm assuming that this is the government's intention. To produce a generation of teenagers who understand TOR, and choose to use it as a first step, using their phones as routers and randomised exit points.
@cstross

@cstross @david_chisnall I'm not planning to do anything that would result in the government seizing my computer

There is no way the government can know whether or not I use a VPN or not, nor whether I use TOR.

Unless the law allows the police to randomly inspect people's computers, and they do this to a significant proportion of the population, I can use any VPN I like without fear. We don't live in a police state yet...

@PeterSommerlad @cstross

So in the context of this discussion, and if you lived in the UK, would you object to being age/identity verified when purchasing your vpn subscription?

It is almost certainly not an annonymous transaction anyway, as those are very very difficult to execute..?

@cstross Ethical issues aside - how are m2m VPNs expected to validate their age?

"hi, I'm an environment monitoring device and was born barely 6 months ago, but I swear I'm old enough to use my built-in VPN to access my MQTT server"

@oschonrock @PeterSommerlad @cstross I'm presuming they'd want to check your age every time you USE a VPN connection? Otherwise the restriction on underage use would be meaningless.

@oschonrock @PeterSommerlad @cstross I'm presuming they'd want to check your age every time you USE a VPN connection? Otherwise the restriction on underage use would be meaningless.

@Fonant @david_chisnall Sure you're not planning on doing anything. That doesn't mean it won't happen to you. Remember, "if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear" was a favourite saying of Lavrenti Beria.

@Fonant @oschonrock @PeterSommerlad The people proposing this amendment in the House of Lords are technical illiterates, that's what makes this so dangerous. So it will be interpreted over-broadly and damagingly with inevitable, unpredictable, side-effects.

@Fonant @PeterSommerlad @cstross

I doubt that... Or actually... they prob haven't thought about that sort of useful detail.

But just like when your porn account has been age/verified once, you then just "log in" (or carry some kind jwt in a permanent cookie) for subsequent usage.

And yes, if your kid can get access to your computer and log in as you, then all bets are off.

VPNs will likely be similar?

@mbpaz @cstross My router is over 18 years old, and I'm not replacing it. And I can prove its age.

@cstross @Fonant @PeterSommerlad

100% agreed...

The entire bill is totally technically illiterate with all sorts of backfiring fishhooks... embarrasing really.

No idea why Labour feels the need to do this sort of thing.

Worldproof the child, not childproof the world. And parents' responsibility.

@oschonrock @Fonant @PeterSommerlad Labour has a nasty paternalist/nanny state tradition going back over a century. It's baked in at this point: Labour knows what's best for you, peasant. (So do the Tories, but they approach it differently.)

@cstross @david_chisnall I'm not planning to do anything that would result in the government seizing my computer

There is no way the government can know whether or not I use a VPN or not, nor whether I use TOR.

Unless the law allows the police to randomly inspect people's computers, and they do this to a significant proportion of the population, I can use any VPN I like without fear. We don't live in a police state yet...

RE: https://social.vivaldi.net/@LonM/115966748145817371

UK PEOPLE: this is REALLY IMPORTANT. If the government bans under-16s from using VPNs, then logically they must intend to REQUIRE AGE VERIFICATION FOR ALL VPN USE. Which will affect adults too!

*Your* privacy and right to anonymous web browsing is at risk!

@Fonant @cstross @david_chisnall emphasis on yet. When you go through the U.K. border they can seize for inspection all devices you are carrying, no matter your citizenship.

@cstross @Fonant @PeterSommerlad

Complex subject.

For example, I would be quite pro a complete twitter ban in EU/UK.

Is that "nanny state", or is that recognising that X is deliberately manipulated to be a malignant anti-democratic cancer?

Porn for kids.... TBH, I get less excited about that, and selective blocking is hard/impractical.

@capriciousday Like banks and other financial institutions who require their employees to use them when working out of the office, or over wifi *within* the office.

@cstross @capriciousday Lawyers likewise. Working at home or in a court building, using confidential & legally privileged data on the office server...

@oschonrock @cstross @PeterSommerlad A ban on Twitter in the EU would also be impossible to enforce.