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Wandering Adventure Party

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You'll be fine

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  • B balsoft@lemmy.ml

    Yep. Some common names:

    Steve ← Steven ← Stephanus ← στέφανος = crown (or wealth)

    Linda ← -linde = tender, soft

    James ← Iacomus ← Iacobus ← Ἰάκωβος ← Ἰακώβ ← יַעֲקֹב = heel, footprint / follow, watch, observe

    Karen ← Catherine ← Αἰκατερίνη ← Ἑκάτη = one who works from far away (referring to a goddess)

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    ilinamorato@lemmy.world
    wrote on last edited by
    #31

    And “Tiffany” may sound like a very 20th-century American name, but it actually dates back to the early 13th century and is based on a Greek word that’s even older. The “Tiffany Problem” is a really interesting phenomenon in the anthropological/perceptual space based on that.

    Tiffany ← Tifinie ← Θεοφάνεια = “God’s arrival/appearance”

    It’s also more closely related to the name “Natalie” than you might think, at least etymologically.

    Natalie ←Natalia ←natale domini = “birth of the Lord” (Latin)

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    • Q quetzalcutlass@lemmy.world

      He also nearly named Celeborn Teleporno, which would have been awful amazing.

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      ilinamorato@lemmy.world
      wrote on last edited by
      #32

      Not “nearly.” That’s actually his name in the “pretranslated” language that the book was “originally” written in, within the fiction.

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      • I ilinamorato@lemmy.world

        And “Tiffany” may sound like a very 20th-century American name, but it actually dates back to the early 13th century and is based on a Greek word that’s even older. The “Tiffany Problem” is a really interesting phenomenon in the anthropological/perceptual space based on that.

        Tiffany ← Tifinie ← Θεοφάνεια = “God’s arrival/appearance”

        It’s also more closely related to the name “Natalie” than you might think, at least etymologically.

        Natalie ←Natalia ←natale domini = “birth of the Lord” (Latin)

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        balsoft@lemmy.ml
        wrote on last edited by
        #33

        I knew about Tiffany because of that CGP Grey video, but Natalie is interesting too!

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        • P pastel_de_airfryer@lemmy.eco.br

          In my headcanon, that’s not his real name. The books were written after the facts, so I imagine the writers wanted him to be remembered only as a Sauron henchman, erasing him from history.

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          ilinamorato@lemmy.world
          wrote on last edited by ilinamorato@lemmy.world
          #34

          Really, your headcanon has some precedent in the books. If Wormtongue had written the history, he literally would’ve called Gandalf “bad news.” And in fact, Saruman’s actual name was Curumo. …uh, or Curunir. Or Sharkey, or Tarindor, or…

          I mean, part of the problem is that every person (and place, and country, and river…) has like a half dozen names depending on who’s talking and what time or place they’re in. Gandalf himself is Greyhame, Gandalf, Stormcrow, and Lathspell in Rohan alone; and Mithrandir, Olorin, Incanus, and Tharkun to other people in Middle Earth.

          Aragorn and Strider and Elessar and Estel and Wingfoot and Longshanks are the same person in different contexts. Galadriel is also Alatariel and Artanis and Nerwen. Legolas is Laicolasse and Greenleaf (all three of which, in fairness, mean the same thing in different languages).

          And that’s before we even talk about what their names “really” were in the “original” Red Book of Westmarch, before Tolkien “translated” them to English. The “actual” sound that came out of Bilbo’s mouth when he introduced himself was Bilba Labingi, but Tolkien decided that the name Labingi “actually” would’ve sounded like the word for bag or sack to the “original hearers.” Likewise Frodo’s name is “translated” from Maura Labingi and Sam “actually” introduced himself as Banazir Galpsi.

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          • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            agent641@lemmy.world
            wrote on last edited by agent641@lemmy.world
            #35

            Overt bad guy: Sauron

            Secret bad guy: Saurumon

            wieson@feddit.orgW L hupf@feddit.orgH 3 Replies Last reply
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            • A agent641@lemmy.world

              Overt bad guy: Sauron

              Secret bad guy: Saurumon

              wieson@feddit.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
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              wieson@feddit.org
              wrote on last edited by
              #36

              The um signifies the hesitation

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              • D dragontypewyvern@midwest.social

                It keeps blowing my mind when I learn that other languages haven’t obfuscated the meanings of names behind two thousand years of linguistic divergence.

                Your name almost certainly means something basic too, you just don’t remember what it is.

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                mithgaladh@jlai.lu
                wrote on last edited by
                #37

                I mean, there’s people called Hunter…

                B 1 Reply Last reply
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                • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  wrote on last edited by leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  #38

                  Sure… but Tolkien could tell you Treebeard’s name in hall a dozen languages he’d made up for his setting (or for fun, before the setting was a thing), including full etymologies.

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                  • A agent641@lemmy.world

                    Overt bad guy: Sauron

                    Secret bad guy: Saurumon

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                    luciferofastora@feddit.org
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #39

                    While I made the same association when first reading the books, I’ll point out that the name Saruman is one the humans gave him. His Quenya name, Curumo, has little to do with Sauron, nor with the latter’s original name Mairon before he revealed his allegiance to Melkor and the elves dubbed him Sauron (Quenya) and Gorthaur (Sindarin).

                    There is a connection between them, but it isn’t by name. They were both originally Maiar of Aulë, both ambitious and cunning, both desiring order. But where Sauron thought siding with Melkor would get him the means to impose his noble order, Saruman stuck with the Valar and was eventually sent to protect the newly awakened elves from Melkor.

                    Still, that shared ambition for order eventually made allies of them, while their respective cunning saw each scheming against the other. If Gandalf and those meddling mortals hadn’t gotten in the way, the final stage of the War of the Ring would have been a struggle between these two former colleagues. Depending on where the Ring ended up, that might have been an interesting struggle, the two most cunning Maiar going head to head, but I think it’s for the best we never found out how that would have gone.

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                    • Q quetzalcutlass@lemmy.world

                      He also nearly named Celeborn Teleporno, which would have been awful amazing.

                      AlaknárA This user is from outside of this forum
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                      Alaknár
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #40

                      Not “nearly” and not “Celeborn Teleporno”.

                      Celeborn is his name in the language Sindarin.

                      Teleporno is his name in the language Quenya.

                      I think you can see the similarities between “Cele/Tele” and “born/porn(o)”, right?

                      Similarly Galadriel (Sinadrin) has a Quenya name - Altáriel.

                      We have very similar situations here on Earth with differences in spelling/pronunciation between languages (and ages): James vs Iacobus or Catherine vs Aikaterínē.

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                      • A arbitraryvalue@sh.itjust.works

                        I don’t know if Tolkien’s notes support this, but I always assumed that Treebeard’s Entish name was something completely unpronounceable for anyone who isn’t an ent, and “Treebeard” was a nickname that he picked for himself. Maybe because he finds it funny that other species think he looks like a tree. (I’m sure that ents look clearly different from trees to other ents.)

                        Edit: he says so himself.

                        Hrum, now, well, I am an Ent, or that’s what they call me. Yes, Ent is the word. The Ent, I am, you might say, in your manner of speaking. Fangorn is my name according to some, Treebeard others make it. Treebeard will do.

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                        Alaknár
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #41

                        Didn’t he also say that his actual Entish name would take too long to pronounce for regular mortals to bother with?

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                        • C crazylikegollum@lemmy.world

                          Family who are very proud of their feet: Proudfeet

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                          Alaknár
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #42

                          Guy who is pretty strong and is a blacksmith: Ethan Smith.

                          All names mean something. Or rather: meant something at some point in history.

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                          • P pastel_de_airfryer@lemmy.eco.br

                            In my headcanon, that’s not his real name. The books were written after the facts, so I imagine the writers wanted him to be remembered only as a Sauron henchman, erasing him from history.

                            AlaknárA This user is from outside of this forum
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                            Alaknár
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #43

                            In my headcanon, that’s not his real name

                            It’s one of his names. As an Ainu (a spirit), he was called Curumo.

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                            • L luciferofastora@feddit.org

                              While I made the same association when first reading the books, I’ll point out that the name Saruman is one the humans gave him. His Quenya name, Curumo, has little to do with Sauron, nor with the latter’s original name Mairon before he revealed his allegiance to Melkor and the elves dubbed him Sauron (Quenya) and Gorthaur (Sindarin).

                              There is a connection between them, but it isn’t by name. They were both originally Maiar of Aulë, both ambitious and cunning, both desiring order. But where Sauron thought siding with Melkor would get him the means to impose his noble order, Saruman stuck with the Valar and was eventually sent to protect the newly awakened elves from Melkor.

                              Still, that shared ambition for order eventually made allies of them, while their respective cunning saw each scheming against the other. If Gandalf and those meddling mortals hadn’t gotten in the way, the final stage of the War of the Ring would have been a struggle between these two former colleagues. Depending on where the Ring ended up, that might have been an interesting struggle, the two most cunning Maiar going head to head, but I think it’s for the best we never found out how that would have gone.

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                              greenknight23@lemmy.world
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #44

                              sir, this is a Wendy’s.

                              L 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • L luciferofastora@feddit.org

                                While I made the same association when first reading the books, I’ll point out that the name Saruman is one the humans gave him. His Quenya name, Curumo, has little to do with Sauron, nor with the latter’s original name Mairon before he revealed his allegiance to Melkor and the elves dubbed him Sauron (Quenya) and Gorthaur (Sindarin).

                                There is a connection between them, but it isn’t by name. They were both originally Maiar of Aulë, both ambitious and cunning, both desiring order. But where Sauron thought siding with Melkor would get him the means to impose his noble order, Saruman stuck with the Valar and was eventually sent to protect the newly awakened elves from Melkor.

                                Still, that shared ambition for order eventually made allies of them, while their respective cunning saw each scheming against the other. If Gandalf and those meddling mortals hadn’t gotten in the way, the final stage of the War of the Ring would have been a struggle between these two former colleagues. Depending on where the Ring ended up, that might have been an interesting struggle, the two most cunning Maiar going head to head, but I think it’s for the best we never found out how that would have gone.

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                                justanotherpodunk@lemmy.world
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #45

                                Now tell me about a very specific part on a commercial airliner.

                                L 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • B balsoft@lemmy.ml

                                  I knew about Tiffany because of that CGP Grey video, but Natalie is interesting too!

                                  I This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  ilinamorato@lemmy.world
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #46

                                  Nice. Yup, I learned about the Tiffany Problem from Grey as well, but picked up the tidbit about Natalie from being married to one.

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                                  • M mithgaladh@jlai.lu

                                    I mean, there’s people called Hunter…

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                                    buddahriffic@lemmy.world
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #47

                                    There are a bunch of obvious ones for last names. Smith, Tailor, Carpenter, Fletcher, etc from when urban families tended to keep the same profession.

                                    Also, last names that end in “son” like Johnson, Thompson, Ragnarson. It’s just shorthand for “son of John”. Not sure if Ragnarson is a name that has survived to today, but it was the name that made me realize that connection when reading a fiction based on the execution of Ragnar and the subsequent Viking invasion of England by his sons. They were Ragnarsons but he was Ragnar Lodbrok (which just means he was hairy, if he even was a single person and not an amalgramation of a bunch of big Viking names).

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                                    • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                                      buddahriffic@lemmy.world
                                      wrote on last edited by buddahriffic@lemmy.world
                                      #48

                                      It’s kinda funny with anime and manga. They use Japanese names for a bunch of stuff like special martial arts techniques or special moves. Not knowing Japanese, the names sound cool and mysterious.

                                      Learning the actual translations, Treebeard is pretty par for the course.

                                      Like from Naruto, Sasuke uses the Copy Wheel Eye (sharingan), Hinyata uses the White Eye (byakugon), and Naruto’s big move is Spiral Sphere (rasengan). Copy Wheel Eye’s upgraded version is called Kalidoscope Copy Wheel Eye.

                                      They aren’t horrible names, but they feel less cool.

                                      Though it would be funny if Saitama has special moves that are just other languages saying “normal punch” or “serious punch”. “Hip bump with moderate vigor” or something.

                                      Edit: fixed spelling of byakugon

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                                        snowclone@lemmy.world
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #49

                                        No. he just translated it into treebeard for localization for English speakers. educate yourself.

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                                          zombifrancis@sh.itjust.works
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #50

                                          The man understood what language and names are used for, to say the least.

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