Deleted my post about the sexual harassment I'd received on Fedi, because it was driving more sexual harassment toward me.
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@eq "don't let the idiots get you" - do you see how that puts it on me?
I trust you mean well, but respectfully: no. The correct response is "men should fight back when they see this amongst themselves."
It isn't my responsibility to "not let them get me down." It's men who need to step up and fight this battle.
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@Aprazeth
This is a huge opportunity. We need to learn *and teach eachother* how to call our brothers in when they're out of line. -
@mloxton Matthew, I agree with you, we need to deal with it. But to be quite frank, I rarely see it. Not that I'm not looking, rather it's ususally beyond what is in my feed, and therefore I can't respond. I suggest we broadcast, or perhaps create a list that can be used and these women can PM that list with what's happening. I'd be happy to help, but I don't see it, thus I can't help. @bob @vkc
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Deleted my post about the sexual harassment I'd received on Fedi, because it was driving more sexual harassment toward me.
Y'all want women on Fedi? Fight that shit. I can't do it for you.
@vkc @Nickiquote fuck that guys! I consider necessary to expose them but even more important is ton promote a culture where that behaviour is never accepted.
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@alice I think a lot of guys could also benefit from reading your "sucker punch" post about open registration and moderation. It def opened my eyes to how others are treated on here and elsewhere...
๐ ฐ๐ ป๐ ธ๐ ฒ๐ ด (๐๐ฆ) (@alice@lgbtqia.space)
Why reactive moderation isn't going to cut it, aka, "The Sucker-punch Problem". Imagine you invite your friendโlet's call him Markโto a club with you. It's open-door, which is cool, because you like when a lot of folx show up. Sure, it might get a little rowdy, but they have a bouncer, and you've never seen things getting out of hand. So, you're busy dancing when a new guy walks in wearing a "I Hate Mark" shirt and promptly sucker-punches Mark. You didn't see it happen, but Mark is upset and tells the bouncer, who kicks the guy out. A few minutes later, the same guy walks back in and sucker-punches Mark again. Same result. Some people in the club say they'll tell the bouncer if they see him come in again. Mark wants to leave, but you tell him it's not that badโafter all, you've never been punched, and you didn't see Mark get punched, so maybe he's just being sensitive. A different guy walks in wearing a "I Plan On Punching Mark" shirt. No one tells the bouncer, because they've never seen *this* guy punch Mark. He sucker-punches Mark. At this point, Mark is pissed and yelling about being punched. The club members talk about putting up a "No Punching Mark" sign, but the owner is worried it'll hurt his club's growth. Another Mark in the club proposes they turn away anyone wearing an anti-Mark shirt or espousing anti-Mark rhetoric at the door, but this gets shot down for the same reason as the sign ideaโthen someone sucker-punches him. By the end of the night, your friend Mark is beat to fuck and says he'll never come to this club again. In fact, he's going to tell anyone named Mark to stay clear of this place. The next time you go to the club, half the folx there are wearing "I Kill Marks" shirts, but there aren't any Marks there, so it doesn't come up. I've been sucker-punched every day, for the last three days in a row by some of the most vile hate-speech and imagery. The accounts are using open registration servers and signing up with variations on the username "heilhitler1488". I fully expect it'll continue as long as we have open registration servers. And no, username pattern blocking alone won't fix this, it'll help a little, but mostly it'll just make them wear a different shirt while they sucker-punch us. #OpenRegistrationHurts
LGBTQIA.Space (lgbtqia.space)
@semitones @alice @vkc
made me take notice too! -
@mloxton Matthew, I agree with you, we need to deal with it. But to be quite frank, I rarely see it. Not that I'm not looking, rather it's ususally beyond what is in my feed, and therefore I can't respond. I suggest we broadcast, or perhaps create a list that can be used and these women can PM that list with what's happening. I'd be happy to help, but I don't see it, thus I can't help. @bob @vkc
I hear you, and the same situation exists wrt racism. People of color say they get a ton of racist interactions, but I don't see it, so don't respond.
I think three things are going on:
1. There are things that *I* don't perceive as racist/sexist, but are experienced as such by the target. That bc the perpetrator is modulating to escape detection
2. There are things that I haven't realized are racist and sexist, and I need to educate myself
3. I am not in those environments
@bob @vkc -
Deleted my post about the sexual harassment I'd received on Fedi, because it was driving more sexual harassment toward me.
Y'all want women on Fedi? Fight that shit. I can't do it for you.
@vkc Very sorry this happened!
๏ธ Unfort it does matter on what instance one is since the blocklists are tied to instances and not federated
There is a very dark corner in the Fedi and those domains should be blocked on instance level by default
We started out with a long list, after 6 years its only gotten longer and longer but its needed, very much
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Deleted my post about the sexual harassment I'd received on Fedi, because it was driving more sexual harassment toward me.
Y'all want women on Fedi? Fight that shit. I can't do it for you.
@vkc Well, that's disappointing. Sorry you had to do that. I do what I can when I see it, but of course I'm only one person.
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Deleted my post about the sexual harassment I'd received on Fedi, because it was driving more sexual harassment toward me.
Y'all want women on Fedi? Fight that shit. I can't do it for you.
@vkc oh JFC. I am sorry.
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@byrnensorg there's good reason for a lot of anger at some things. The problems have always been here too, but due to active moderation and the nature of federation, it can be less visible (except to the people who get sucker-punched).
Also, the only way we keep Fedi from becoming Twitter is by believing the victims instead of the trolls.
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I hear you, and the same situation exists wrt racism. People of color say they get a ton of racist interactions, but I don't see it, so don't respond.
I think three things are going on:
1. There are things that *I* don't perceive as racist/sexist, but are experienced as such by the target. That bc the perpetrator is modulating to escape detection
2. There are things that I haven't realized are racist and sexist, and I need to educate myself
3. I am not in those environments
@bob @vkc@mloxton There is an excellent book, "How to Be an Antiracist," by Ibram X. Kendi. Sexism has become a more difficult thing, as in some cases, it's in the eye of the recipient. I take anything like a slight only because they are the opposite sex to be sexism; that goes both ways. I think there is a lot of overt sexism that's easy to spot. If someone is harassing another, that's not necessarily sexism, but certainly harassment, and occurs more toward women than men, to be sure. @bob @vkc
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Deleted my post about the sexual harassment I'd received on Fedi, because it was driving more sexual harassment toward me.
Y'all want women on Fedi? Fight that shit. I can't do it for you.
@vkc +1000000
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@byrnensorg there's good reason for a lot of anger at some things. The problems have always been here too, but due to active moderation and the nature of federation, it can be less visible (except to the people who get sucker-punched).
Also, the only way we keep Fedi from becoming Twitter is by believing the victims instead of the trolls.
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Deleted my post about the sexual harassment I'd received on Fedi, because it was driving more sexual harassment toward me.
Y'all want women on Fedi? Fight that shit. I can't do it for you.
@vkc Hugs if you want them, a nod if you don't. Sorry you had to endure that bullshit again.
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Deleted my post about the sexual harassment I'd received on Fedi, because it was driving more sexual harassment toward me.
Y'all want women on Fedi? Fight that shit. I can't do it for you.
@vkc I will never understand why some people just love to be shitheads.
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@semitones thanks for bringing that up ๐ฉท seems like a good time to boost that post again.
@alice @semitones @vkc I think that is the post I saw that made me want to follow you, Alice!
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Deleted my post about the sexual harassment I'd received on Fedi, because it was driving more sexual harassment toward me.
Y'all want women on Fedi? Fight that shit. I can't do it for you.
@vkc is it coming from the same server? If so, i'd make a #fediblock post
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@mloxton There is an excellent book, "How to Be an Antiracist," by Ibram X. Kendi. Sexism has become a more difficult thing, as in some cases, it's in the eye of the recipient. I take anything like a slight only because they are the opposite sex to be sexism; that goes both ways. I think there is a lot of overt sexism that's easy to spot. If someone is harassing another, that's not necessarily sexism, but certainly harassment, and occurs more toward women than men, to be sure. @bob @vkc
@RegGuy
At risk of flooding out Veronica's voice here (a real risk and also sexism), yeah, the overt "hey you b*tch" stuff is easy to spot.
More difficult is the coded stuff. Using innocent words to highlight "feminine" vs "masculine" aspects
Even more difficult is noticing undue focus, undue exclusion, and seemingly automatic assumptions that a woman should be more caring or gentle, or be the default peacemaker, etc.It takes a lot of work, persistence, and attention
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@moondog548 as one of their peers, you can have a huge impact on toxic behavior in 3-5 simple words:
"Dude, not cool."
"What the fuck, man?"
"Hey, that was fucked up."Pick whatever variation works best for your peer group, and snap back with it as soon as the bullshit leaves their mouth. Be upset and make it uncomfortable for a moment. Don't let them brush it off as a joke.
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Deleted my post about the sexual harassment I'd received on Fedi, because it was driving more sexual harassment toward me.
Y'all want women on Fedi? Fight that shit. I can't do it for you.
