I occasionally help an elderly neighbor get stuff done with their computer.
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3 vertical dots. And the other 3 dots in a subtly different place. (Yes, MS Office, that is you!)
And the cog.
And the horizontal dots.
Or the V click down triangle open or coloured in.
And Win 11 whose different settingses don't even properly overlap (and breaking a load of features).
I live in Linux at home. It's not perfect but it is 95% less bad and annoying. And has better fucking fonts.
@NatalyaD @jalefkowit @DJDarren doh, v was a much easier description than upside down ^!
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I occasionally help an elderly neighbor get stuff done with their computer. And every single time, I walk away in incandescent rage at how hard we have made this stuff for people who have not spent their entire waking lives marinating in it
This is a similar argument I've seen explained in a video about video game UI/mechanics.
It's all made by people in-the-know, who can't really put themselves in the shoes of someone who has never heard of the thing, and thinks a quick "you just click here and voilá!" is enough.
I had to take "PC" (really, DOS and Windows 3.1) classes when I got my first computer. I was terrified of doing something wrong and it'd make the computer explode.
I try to always keep that in mind.
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IU changes drive ME up the wall and I'm computer literate. It's a nightmare for disabled ppl who I work with/for.
I see folk presenting via online video thwarted by UI changes that mean their test run or last week's presenting UI doesn't work anymore. UI change wasn't announced, it just changed.
Often OS/apps update on a 5-90 min timescale then force a reboot WHILE WE ARE BUSY or mid-presentation/meeting etc. Work ppl send apologies for this all the time.
@jalefkowit @DJDarren@NatalyaD @jalefkowit @DJDarren gah, it's a miracle more computers don't end up flying out of windows!
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@NatalyaD @jalefkowit @DJDarren gah, it's a miracle more computers don't end up flying out of windows!
@jtonline @NatalyaD @jalefkowit TOO MANY ARE ALREADY AFFLICTED WITH WINDOWS
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I occasionally help an elderly neighbor get stuff done with their computer. And every single time, I walk away in incandescent rage at how hard we have made this stuff for people who have not spent their entire waking lives marinating in it
@jalefkowit My grandfather, the bookkeeper for his church, in his 80s used a massive manual, hand-cranked adding machine with row after row of buttons. When I offered him my pocket calculator instead, he shrugged and said he just didn't want to learn something new at his age.
I worked with newspaper reporters who didn't want to make the jump from typewriters to word processors.
I started using PCs back in '77 when I bought a TRS-80, so I've marinated in tech for a long time. -
@jtonline @NatalyaD @jalefkowit TOO MANY ARE ALREADY AFFLICTED WITH WINDOWS
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@jalefkowit My grandfather, the bookkeeper for his church, in his 80s used a massive manual, hand-cranked adding machine with row after row of buttons. When I offered him my pocket calculator instead, he shrugged and said he just didn't want to learn something new at his age.
I worked with newspaper reporters who didn't want to make the jump from typewriters to word processors.
I started using PCs back in '77 when I bought a TRS-80, so I've marinated in tech for a long time.@CdnCurmudgeon @jalefkowit I also suffer from the affliction "marinated in tech", is that what we call this old stew flavour?
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@jalefkowit Really?
Wanna go back to fucking around with IRQs and config.sys?
Installing Windows 3.1 from floppy disks?
Removing and re-adding TCP/IP from your dialup adapter in Windows 95 every week?
Screwing around with BBSs and BTX?
Getting printer drivers delivered by snail mail?
Bluescreens on a daily basis?
Reading the 300 page manual for Word Perfect?
All without Google?I think measured by the possibilities a modern system delivers it has become incredibly easy to use.
@thechris @jalefkowit But in those old days most people didn't need to use a computer. Now everything involves a computer, everyone has to deal with the government websites.
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I occasionally help an elderly neighbor get stuff done with their computer. And every single time, I walk away in incandescent rage at how hard we have made this stuff for people who have not spent their entire waking lives marinating in it
@jalefkowit as a non technically oriented, middle aged person, it is much harder to get computers to do what I want them to than it was 20 years ago. I haven't marinated in technology, but I've watched it develop from a distance since the 1980s. Now I have to mentally suit up for battle to get anything done online. Sure, I understand why people say it's easier now, but it's also burdened with stuff I don't want and can't easily escape. I'm looking into getting a non networked PC.
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I occasionally help an elderly neighbor get stuff done with their computer. And every single time, I walk away in incandescent rage at how hard we have made this stuff for people who have not spent their entire waking lives marinating in it
@jalefkowit it’s an long read but https://www.wheresyoured.at/never-forgive-them/ brought home some of these points to me very well.
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@jalefkowit Really?
Wanna go back to fucking around with IRQs and config.sys?
Installing Windows 3.1 from floppy disks?
Removing and re-adding TCP/IP from your dialup adapter in Windows 95 every week?
Screwing around with BBSs and BTX?
Getting printer drivers delivered by snail mail?
Bluescreens on a daily basis?
Reading the 300 page manual for Word Perfect?
All without Google?I think measured by the possibilities a modern system delivers it has become incredibly easy to use.
@thechris you mean the days when you weren’t required to use a computer to do nearly anything?
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and FWIW it's questionable whether computers really were harder in the past.
@KentNavalesi @jalefkowit but you didn't have to use them for every damn thing
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@KentNavalesi @jalefkowit but you didn't have to use them for every damn thing
@akamran @jalefkowit True.
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I occasionally help an elderly neighbor get stuff done with their computer. And every single time, I walk away in incandescent rage at how hard we have made this stuff for people who have not spent their entire waking lives marinating in it
In the past the people behind the tech weren't purposely trying to fuck you.
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@thechris @jalefkowit But in those old days most people didn't need to use a computer. Now everything involves a computer, everyone has to deal with the government websites.
@jtb @jalefkowit If those websites are shit, that's not today's conputers' fault.
But he blocked me anyway because I dared to have a different opinion, so fuck this. -
I occasionally help an elderly neighbor get stuff done with their computer. And every single time, I walk away in incandescent rage at how hard we have made this stuff for people who have not spent their entire waking lives marinating in it
@jalefkowit Even when we *have* spent our entire lives marinating in it, so much of modern computing is still impossible to navigate.
Youtube accounts have 4 separate "settings" sections, many of which have identically named settings, some of which control the same settings, some of which are entirely separate from one another.
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I occasionally help an elderly neighbor get stuff done with their computer. And every single time, I walk away in incandescent rage at how hard we have made this stuff for people who have not spent their entire waking lives marinating in it
@jalefkowit Same but for watching television.
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@jalefkowit Even when we *have* spent our entire lives marinating in it, so much of modern computing is still impossible to navigate.
Youtube accounts have 4 separate "settings" sections, many of which have identically named settings, some of which control the same settings, some of which are entirely separate from one another.
@ajroach42 It's hard for *me*, a professional nerd who gets paid to understand this stuff. I have no idea how normal people haven't come for us with pitchforks and torches yet
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I occasionally help an elderly neighbor get stuff done with their computer. And every single time, I walk away in incandescent rage at how hard we have made this stuff for people who have not spent their entire waking lives marinating in it
@jalefkowit As someone who's proficient with tech, living together with my mother who very much isn't, I'd say that modern tech is failing both power users and inexperienced users.
It's all designed to fit the average skill level, instead of providing learning and explanation.
I fondly remember the old Windows Help system, which is part of how I got as tech skilled as I am now in the first place. Nowadays users are just expected to already know it, know how to google it or to just go fuck themselves. -
@KentNavalesi I spent too much of my life trying to configure sound cards on MS-DOS, so I wouldn't say the past was perfect either
I just like to think we can always do better.
@jalefkowit @KentNavalesi This is a question of great and genuine interest to me.
My Apple ][+ was definitely a hard brick wall to somebody who’d never used one. Also, any specific piece of software behaved in extremely limited, extremely consistent ways, so that once somebody had learned to use it, they could continue using it.
My first-gen iPhone was a miraculous device. I could hand it to somebody who’d never used a touch screen or a “smart“ phone of any kind, and they would — without exception! I tried this experiment multiple times! — be able to figure out how to use it just by experimentation and intuition. I really don’t think that’s true of iPhones now. But a current iPhone offers far more capabilities.
Were computers easier or harder in the past? Or just •differently• hard? How? Whose needs have we prioritized? Whose comfort?
