So, you and I both know that public praying isn’t just people being in public standing around praying without anyone knowing they’re praying.

If a person went to a restaurant and started vocally praising Satan for this meal for an hour prior to eating it… yeah I bet they would make a lot of people uncomfortable. Not to mention the restaurant would refuse them service.

What you want to do is justify bothering people in public spaces with your beliefs. If you can stand around in public thinking about your god without letting anyone else know you’re doing it, then no one would be uncomfortable.

What bothers me about this perspective is the implicit assumption that everyone who thinks that public displays of religion should be banned is actually motivated by racism, rather than recognising that somebody can be against this for non-racist reasons.

Praying in PUBLIC is like having sex in public. Don’t.

I’ve had people pray in front of the doors on a metro. Insane shit

It’s not racism with more steps. You don’t even know it has not been enforced improperly. It’s a lot easier to enforce enforcement than it is to stop people ruining the world

Then that’s not prayer, it’s being a public nuisance, a disturber of the peace. That’s a different crime / tort that I’m sure is already on the books.

The prayer part is irrelevant.

There’s a precedent like this in the US: enhancement laws

They ruin lives, and don’t stop crime.

It just so happens that it always boils down to policing what Muslims do. Just one big coincidence.

That’s very fair yes. But how can you tell those who are anti-religion for racist reasons from those who are for not?

There are two hazards in our discussion:

1. someone being called racist
2. someone suffering from systemic racism

I prioritize hazard 1 as having a lower consequence than hazard 2.

In other words, I care much more about eradicating systemic racism than the hurt feelings of someone whose motives are misunderstood.

So what is an example of something you think this topic is referring to? It’s not referring to a family doing a quick prayer before a public meal.

It sounds like a bunch of flimsy bullshit in order to legally oppress practicing religious freedoms.

You should always question why law enforcement gets extra work.

So, you’re not able to answer my question or you’re refusing to?

I don’t disagree that giving law enforcement more work should be questioned, but… religious people are the cause of… most of the world’s problems. So I don’t have a ton of empathy. Keep it in your church.

Why should I have to answer your question? What makes you so special that I’m required to do indulge in your navel gazing?

Making the practice of prayer illegal in any form is asinine and an overstepping of personal freedoms.

If you can’t understand that, start looking at every fascist entity of the past, and realize you’re on the wrong side.

I disagree. Sorry. Religious people are just… the cause of most problems in the world.

It sounds like your idea of “fascism” is Socialism without Religion… sign me up.

People using religion to oppress and usurp others, yes.

People just having a personal relationship with whatever they believe in? No.

Often, what one would see as a crime or nuisance while observing “religious practices” is simply another already codified behavior. Also, meditation could be constructed as prayer under the vagueness of these kinds of laws.

Then don’t be in that space?

So you feel the same when a bunch of people are meditating? Same action, really.