Skip to content
0
  • Home
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
  • Home
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (Sketchy)
  • No Skin
Collapse

Wandering Adventure Party

  1. Home
  2. PC Gaming
  3. Palworld studio Pocketpair says its new publishing division won't handle games that use generative AI: 'We don't believe in it'

Palworld studio Pocketpair says its new publishing division won't handle games that use generative AI: 'We don't believe in it'

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved PC Gaming
pcgaming
61 Posts 33 Posters 1.2k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • Jerkface (any/all)J Jerkface (any/all)

    The difference between “generative AI” and “procedural generation” cannot be meaningfully nailed down.

    I Cast FistI This user is from outside of this forum
    I Cast FistI This user is from outside of this forum
    I Cast Fist
    wrote on last edited by
    #26

    You don’t need any preexisting training data for procedural generation

    1 Reply Last reply
    6
    • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
      This post did not contain any content.
      Link Preview Image
      Palworld studio Pocketpair says its new publishing division won't handle games that use generative AI: 'We don't believe in it'

      Pocketpair Publishing boss John Buckley says we're already starting to see a flood of 'really low-quality, AI-made games' on Steam and other storefronts.

      favicon

      PC Gamer (www.pcgamer.com)

      I Cast FistI This user is from outside of this forum
      I Cast FistI This user is from outside of this forum
      I Cast Fist
      wrote on last edited by
      #27

      Pocketpair Publishing boss John Buckley

      Any relation to loss guy?

      S A 2 Replies Last reply
      5
      • I Cast FistI I Cast Fist

        Pocketpair Publishing boss John Buckley

        Any relation to loss guy?

        S This user is from outside of this forum
        S This user is from outside of this forum
        shinkantrain@lemmy.ml
        wrote on last edited by shinkantrain@lemmy.ml
        #28

        Isn’t that Garfield’s owner

        A 1 Reply Last reply
        2
        • J jesus_666@lemmy.world

          You’d think that that’s the one thing LLMs should be good at – have characters respond to arbitrary input in-character according to the game state. Unfortunately, restricting output to match the game state is mathematically impossible with LLMs; hallucinations are inevitable and can cause characters to randomly start lying or talking about things thy can’t know about. Plus, LLMs are very heavy on resources.

          There are non-generative AI techniques that could be interesting for games, of course; especially ones that can afford to run at a slower pace like seconds or tens of seconds. For example, something that makes characters dynamically adapt their medium-term action plan to the situation every once in a while could work well. But I don’t think we’re going to see useful AI-driven dialogue anytime soon.

          oce 🐆O This user is from outside of this forum
          oce 🐆O This user is from outside of this forum
          oce 🐆
          wrote on last edited by
          #29

          You seem to imply we can only use the raw output of the LLm but that’s not true. We can add some deterministic safeguards afterwards to reduce hallucinations and increase relevancy. For example if you use an LLM to generate SQL, you can verify that the answer respects the data schemas and the relationship graph. That’s a pretty hot subject right now, I don’t see why it couldn’t be done for video game dialogues.
          Indeed, I also agree that the consumption of resources it requires may not be worth the output.

          P 1 Reply Last reply
          2
          • oce 🐆O oce 🐆

            You seem to imply we can only use the raw output of the LLm but that’s not true. We can add some deterministic safeguards afterwards to reduce hallucinations and increase relevancy. For example if you use an LLM to generate SQL, you can verify that the answer respects the data schemas and the relationship graph. That’s a pretty hot subject right now, I don’t see why it couldn’t be done for video game dialogues.
            Indeed, I also agree that the consumption of resources it requires may not be worth the output.

            P This user is from outside of this forum
            P This user is from outside of this forum
            porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
            wrote on last edited by
            #30

            If you could define a formal schema for what appropriate dialogue options would be you could just pick from it randomly, no need for the AI

            oce 🐆O 1 Reply Last reply
            2
            • S shinkantrain@lemmy.ml

              Isn’t that Garfield’s owner

              A This user is from outside of this forum
              A This user is from outside of this forum
              angrycommiekender@lemmy.world
              wrote on last edited by
              #31

              That’s Jon Arbuckle

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • I Cast FistI I Cast Fist

                Pocketpair Publishing boss John Buckley

                Any relation to loss guy?

                A This user is from outside of this forum
                A This user is from outside of this forum
                angrycommiekender@lemmy.world
                wrote on last edited by
                #32

                We’re all cousins, so probably?

                1 Reply Last reply
                3
                • T theobvioussolution@lemmy.ca

                  “We might deal in derivative IP, but it’s our derivative IP!”

                  Q This user is from outside of this forum
                  Q This user is from outside of this forum
                  quovadishomines@sh.itjust.works
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #33

                  To be fair Nintendo was heavily inspired by other artists work when designing Pokemon.

                  K 1 Reply Last reply
                  21
                  • Q quovadishomines@sh.itjust.works

                    To be fair Nintendo was heavily inspired by other artists work when designing Pokemon.

                    K This user is from outside of this forum
                    K This user is from outside of this forum
                    kinggimpicus@sh.itjust.works
                    wrote on last edited by kinggimpicus@sh.itjust.works
                    #34

                    Nintendo wasn’t “inspired” by shit. They made an ice cream cone a Pokémon. Keys on a ring? Pokémon. 8 varieties of elemental flavored dog? Check. Oh hey cool look a 2d image on a computer oh wait it’s actually a Pokémon. Dog? Cat? Snake? Bird? Horse? All Pokémon. IMO nothing in Pokémon is actually “inspired”, only ripped off.

                    Z Q B P 4 Replies Last reply
                    17
                    • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                      This post did not contain any content.
                      Link Preview Image
                      Palworld studio Pocketpair says its new publishing division won't handle games that use generative AI: 'We don't believe in it'

                      Pocketpair Publishing boss John Buckley says we're already starting to see a flood of 'really low-quality, AI-made games' on Steam and other storefronts.

                      favicon

                      PC Gamer (www.pcgamer.com)

                      tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                      tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                      tattorack@lemmy.world
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #35

                      But… The developers of Palworld made a game featuring AI generated images.

                      O 1 Reply Last reply
                      6
                      • K kinggimpicus@sh.itjust.works

                        Nintendo wasn’t “inspired” by shit. They made an ice cream cone a Pokémon. Keys on a ring? Pokémon. 8 varieties of elemental flavored dog? Check. Oh hey cool look a 2d image on a computer oh wait it’s actually a Pokémon. Dog? Cat? Snake? Bird? Horse? All Pokémon. IMO nothing in Pokémon is actually “inspired”, only ripped off.

                        Z This user is from outside of this forum
                        Z This user is from outside of this forum
                        zahille7@lemmy.world
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #36

                        They made Goth Mommy GF into a pokemon with “Gothita”

                        How many sentient clouds are also pokemon? Or that one that’s literally just a balloon?

                        I swear pokemon ran out of creativity by gen 3 - and I’m not even a pokemon fan.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        6
                        • K kinggimpicus@sh.itjust.works

                          Nintendo wasn’t “inspired” by shit. They made an ice cream cone a Pokémon. Keys on a ring? Pokémon. 8 varieties of elemental flavored dog? Check. Oh hey cool look a 2d image on a computer oh wait it’s actually a Pokémon. Dog? Cat? Snake? Bird? Horse? All Pokémon. IMO nothing in Pokémon is actually “inspired”, only ripped off.

                          Q This user is from outside of this forum
                          Q This user is from outside of this forum
                          quovadishomines@sh.itjust.works
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #37

                          Im casually suggesting they were “inspired” by other artists work. Many of the Red/Blue era were rip offs.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          12
                          • tattorack@lemmy.worldT tattorack@lemmy.world

                            But… The developers of Palworld made a game featuring AI generated images.

                            O This user is from outside of this forum
                            O This user is from outside of this forum
                            omarfw@lemmy.world
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #38

                            Companies can change their mind about stuff like this.

                            tattorack@lemmy.worldT 1 Reply Last reply
                            4
                            • P porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml

                              If you could define a formal schema for what appropriate dialogue options would be you could just pick from it randomly, no need for the AI

                              oce 🐆O This user is from outside of this forum
                              oce 🐆O This user is from outside of this forum
                              oce 🐆
                              wrote on last edited by oce@jlai.lu
                              #39

                              It would not be a fully determining schema that could apply to random outputs, I would guess this is impossible for natural language, and if it is possible, then it may as well be used for procedural generation. It would be just enough to make an LLM output be good enough. It doesn’t need to be perfect because human output is not perfect either.

                              P 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • S stray@pawb.social

                                It’s been really nice to be able to type a plain question (in any language) into Google and receive a concise answer before scrolling down to confirm with more trustworthy sources. In particular it’s been very good for solving annoyances with UI options by directing me to exactly what I’m looking for. A traditional search will often conflate my search with synonyms (even when using quotations, which is some bullshit), and even ignore what language my search was in.

                                e: Also you should be careful when clicking on any links provided by an LLM because they can accidentally send you phishing links.

                                K This user is from outside of this forum
                                K This user is from outside of this forum
                                Kindness is Punk
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #40

                                SEO destroyed google’s usefulness. AI is a cope for that but AI kills the incentives for very thing it depends on for it’s usefulness, user generated content.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • O ottovonnoob@lemmy.ca

                                  As an amateur game dev, I believe AI will crash out for the public before it becomes truly useful for programming. I’ve heard colleagues try to use AI , but it often just creates more work. When the AI doesn’t know the answer, which is often. it makes something up, leading to errors, crashes, or hidden issues like memory leaks. I’d rather write the code correctly from the start and understand how it works, than spend hours hunting down problems in AI-generated code, only to never find the issue. Full disclosure I use Chatgpt to edit my dialogue as my English is not great.

                                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                                  ryathal@sh.itjust.works
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #41

                                  I don’t think AI code generation is going to be a revolution anytime soon, but AI voice and AI image generation is likely going to stay.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  2
                                  • Jerkface (any/all)J Jerkface (any/all)

                                    The difference between “generative AI” and “procedural generation” cannot be meaningfully nailed down.

                                    R This user is from outside of this forum
                                    R This user is from outside of this forum
                                    ryathal@sh.itjust.works
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #42

                                    Procedural generation is theoretically deterministic, but it’s a fairly minor distinction.

                                    E 1 Reply Last reply
                                    2
                                    • O omarfw@lemmy.world

                                      Companies can change their mind about stuff like this.

                                      tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      tattorack@lemmy.world
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #43

                                      Yes. Except they’re still selling that game.

                                      O 1 Reply Last reply
                                      2
                                      • tattorack@lemmy.worldT tattorack@lemmy.world

                                        Yes. Except they’re still selling that game.

                                        O This user is from outside of this forum
                                        O This user is from outside of this forum
                                        omarfw@lemmy.world
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #44

                                        Yeah because they spent money making it. If you spend millions of dollars making a video game, you can’t just shut it down and refund every order of it without putting your studio in serious jeopardy financially. That’s not an option for them, so the best they can do is just not rely on AI anymore. Clearly they tried it and learned that it actually sucks ass.

                                        tattorack@lemmy.worldT 1 Reply Last reply
                                        5
                                        • oce 🐆O oce 🐆

                                          It would not be a fully determining schema that could apply to random outputs, I would guess this is impossible for natural language, and if it is possible, then it may as well be used for procedural generation. It would be just enough to make an LLM output be good enough. It doesn’t need to be perfect because human output is not perfect either.

                                          P This user is from outside of this forum
                                          P This user is from outside of this forum
                                          porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #45

                                          Yeah that’s kind of my point. That’s a vastly more complicated thing than SQL.

                                          oce 🐆O 1 Reply Last reply
                                          0

                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          Powered by NodeBB Contributors
                                          • First post
                                            Last post