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  3. Palworld studio Pocketpair says its new publishing division won't handle games that use generative AI: 'We don't believe in it'

Palworld studio Pocketpair says its new publishing division won't handle games that use generative AI: 'We don't believe in it'

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  • J jesus_666@lemmy.world

    You’d think that that’s the one thing LLMs should be good at – have characters respond to arbitrary input in-character according to the game state. Unfortunately, restricting output to match the game state is mathematically impossible with LLMs; hallucinations are inevitable and can cause characters to randomly start lying or talking about things thy can’t know about. Plus, LLMs are very heavy on resources.

    There are non-generative AI techniques that could be interesting for games, of course; especially ones that can afford to run at a slower pace like seconds or tens of seconds. For example, something that makes characters dynamically adapt their medium-term action plan to the situation every once in a while could work well. But I don’t think we’re going to see useful AI-driven dialogue anytime soon.

    oce 🐆O This user is from outside of this forum
    oce 🐆O This user is from outside of this forum
    oce 🐆
    wrote on last edited by
    #29

    You seem to imply we can only use the raw output of the LLm but that’s not true. We can add some deterministic safeguards afterwards to reduce hallucinations and increase relevancy. For example if you use an LLM to generate SQL, you can verify that the answer respects the data schemas and the relationship graph. That’s a pretty hot subject right now, I don’t see why it couldn’t be done for video game dialogues.
    Indeed, I also agree that the consumption of resources it requires may not be worth the output.

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    • oce 🐆O oce 🐆

      You seem to imply we can only use the raw output of the LLm but that’s not true. We can add some deterministic safeguards afterwards to reduce hallucinations and increase relevancy. For example if you use an LLM to generate SQL, you can verify that the answer respects the data schemas and the relationship graph. That’s a pretty hot subject right now, I don’t see why it couldn’t be done for video game dialogues.
      Indeed, I also agree that the consumption of resources it requires may not be worth the output.

      P This user is from outside of this forum
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      porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
      wrote on last edited by
      #30

      If you could define a formal schema for what appropriate dialogue options would be you could just pick from it randomly, no need for the AI

      oce 🐆O 1 Reply Last reply
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      • S shinkantrain@lemmy.ml

        Isn’t that Garfield’s owner

        A This user is from outside of this forum
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        angrycommiekender@lemmy.world
        wrote on last edited by
        #31

        That’s Jon Arbuckle

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        • I Cast FistI I Cast Fist

          Pocketpair Publishing boss John Buckley

          Any relation to loss guy?

          A This user is from outside of this forum
          A This user is from outside of this forum
          angrycommiekender@lemmy.world
          wrote on last edited by
          #32

          We’re all cousins, so probably?

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • T theobvioussolution@lemmy.ca

            “We might deal in derivative IP, but it’s our derivative IP!”

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            quovadishomines@sh.itjust.works
            wrote on last edited by
            #33

            To be fair Nintendo was heavily inspired by other artists work when designing Pokemon.

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            • Q quovadishomines@sh.itjust.works

              To be fair Nintendo was heavily inspired by other artists work when designing Pokemon.

              K This user is from outside of this forum
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              kinggimpicus@sh.itjust.works
              wrote on last edited by kinggimpicus@sh.itjust.works
              #34

              Nintendo wasn’t “inspired” by shit. They made an ice cream cone a Pokémon. Keys on a ring? Pokémon. 8 varieties of elemental flavored dog? Check. Oh hey cool look a 2d image on a computer oh wait it’s actually a Pokémon. Dog? Cat? Snake? Bird? Horse? All Pokémon. IMO nothing in Pokémon is actually “inspired”, only ripped off.

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              • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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                Palworld studio Pocketpair says its new publishing division won't handle games that use generative AI: 'We don't believe in it'

                Pocketpair Publishing boss John Buckley says we're already starting to see a flood of 'really low-quality, AI-made games' on Steam and other storefronts.

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                PC Gamer (www.pcgamer.com)

                tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                tattorack@lemmy.world
                wrote on last edited by
                #35

                But… The developers of Palworld made a game featuring AI generated images.

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                • K kinggimpicus@sh.itjust.works

                  Nintendo wasn’t “inspired” by shit. They made an ice cream cone a Pokémon. Keys on a ring? Pokémon. 8 varieties of elemental flavored dog? Check. Oh hey cool look a 2d image on a computer oh wait it’s actually a Pokémon. Dog? Cat? Snake? Bird? Horse? All Pokémon. IMO nothing in Pokémon is actually “inspired”, only ripped off.

                  Z This user is from outside of this forum
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                  zahille7@lemmy.world
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #36

                  They made Goth Mommy GF into a pokemon with “Gothita”

                  How many sentient clouds are also pokemon? Or that one that’s literally just a balloon?

                  I swear pokemon ran out of creativity by gen 3 - and I’m not even a pokemon fan.

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                  • K kinggimpicus@sh.itjust.works

                    Nintendo wasn’t “inspired” by shit. They made an ice cream cone a Pokémon. Keys on a ring? Pokémon. 8 varieties of elemental flavored dog? Check. Oh hey cool look a 2d image on a computer oh wait it’s actually a Pokémon. Dog? Cat? Snake? Bird? Horse? All Pokémon. IMO nothing in Pokémon is actually “inspired”, only ripped off.

                    Q This user is from outside of this forum
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                    quovadishomines@sh.itjust.works
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #37

                    Im casually suggesting they were “inspired” by other artists work. Many of the Red/Blue era were rip offs.

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                    • tattorack@lemmy.worldT tattorack@lemmy.world

                      But… The developers of Palworld made a game featuring AI generated images.

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                      omarfw@lemmy.world
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #38

                      Companies can change their mind about stuff like this.

                      tattorack@lemmy.worldT 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • P porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml

                        If you could define a formal schema for what appropriate dialogue options would be you could just pick from it randomly, no need for the AI

                        oce 🐆O This user is from outside of this forum
                        oce 🐆O This user is from outside of this forum
                        oce 🐆
                        wrote on last edited by oce@jlai.lu
                        #39

                        It would not be a fully determining schema that could apply to random outputs, I would guess this is impossible for natural language, and if it is possible, then it may as well be used for procedural generation. It would be just enough to make an LLM output be good enough. It doesn’t need to be perfect because human output is not perfect either.

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                        • S stray@pawb.social

                          It’s been really nice to be able to type a plain question (in any language) into Google and receive a concise answer before scrolling down to confirm with more trustworthy sources. In particular it’s been very good for solving annoyances with UI options by directing me to exactly what I’m looking for. A traditional search will often conflate my search with synonyms (even when using quotations, which is some bullshit), and even ignore what language my search was in.

                          e: Also you should be careful when clicking on any links provided by an LLM because they can accidentally send you phishing links.

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                          Kindness is Punk
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #40

                          SEO destroyed google’s usefulness. AI is a cope for that but AI kills the incentives for very thing it depends on for it’s usefulness, user generated content.

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                          • O ottovonnoob@lemmy.ca

                            As an amateur game dev, I believe AI will crash out for the public before it becomes truly useful for programming. I’ve heard colleagues try to use AI , but it often just creates more work. When the AI doesn’t know the answer, which is often. it makes something up, leading to errors, crashes, or hidden issues like memory leaks. I’d rather write the code correctly from the start and understand how it works, than spend hours hunting down problems in AI-generated code, only to never find the issue. Full disclosure I use Chatgpt to edit my dialogue as my English is not great.

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                            ryathal@sh.itjust.works
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #41

                            I don’t think AI code generation is going to be a revolution anytime soon, but AI voice and AI image generation is likely going to stay.

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                            • Jerkface (any/all)J Jerkface (any/all)

                              The difference between “generative AI” and “procedural generation” cannot be meaningfully nailed down.

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                              ryathal@sh.itjust.works
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #42

                              Procedural generation is theoretically deterministic, but it’s a fairly minor distinction.

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                              • O omarfw@lemmy.world

                                Companies can change their mind about stuff like this.

                                tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tattorack@lemmy.world
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #43

                                Yes. Except they’re still selling that game.

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                                • tattorack@lemmy.worldT tattorack@lemmy.world

                                  Yes. Except they’re still selling that game.

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                                  omarfw@lemmy.world
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #44

                                  Yeah because they spent money making it. If you spend millions of dollars making a video game, you can’t just shut it down and refund every order of it without putting your studio in serious jeopardy financially. That’s not an option for them, so the best they can do is just not rely on AI anymore. Clearly they tried it and learned that it actually sucks ass.

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                                  • oce 🐆O oce 🐆

                                    It would not be a fully determining schema that could apply to random outputs, I would guess this is impossible for natural language, and if it is possible, then it may as well be used for procedural generation. It would be just enough to make an LLM output be good enough. It doesn’t need to be perfect because human output is not perfect either.

                                    P This user is from outside of this forum
                                    P This user is from outside of this forum
                                    porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #45

                                    Yeah that’s kind of my point. That’s a vastly more complicated thing than SQL.

                                    oce 🐆O 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • K kinggimpicus@sh.itjust.works

                                      Nintendo wasn’t “inspired” by shit. They made an ice cream cone a Pokémon. Keys on a ring? Pokémon. 8 varieties of elemental flavored dog? Check. Oh hey cool look a 2d image on a computer oh wait it’s actually a Pokémon. Dog? Cat? Snake? Bird? Horse? All Pokémon. IMO nothing in Pokémon is actually “inspired”, only ripped off.

                                      B This user is from outside of this forum
                                      B This user is from outside of this forum
                                      bluegrass_addict@lemmy.ca
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #46

                                      you forgot rock.

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                                      • P porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml

                                        Yeah that’s kind of my point. That’s a vastly more complicated thing than SQL.

                                        oce 🐆O This user is from outside of this forum
                                        oce 🐆O This user is from outside of this forum
                                        oce 🐆
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #47

                                        But it also doesn’t need to be as exact as SQL, which removes some kind of complexity.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • O omarfw@lemmy.world

                                          Yeah because they spent money making it. If you spend millions of dollars making a video game, you can’t just shut it down and refund every order of it without putting your studio in serious jeopardy financially. That’s not an option for them, so the best they can do is just not rely on AI anymore. Clearly they tried it and learned that it actually sucks ass.

                                          tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          tattorack@lemmy.world
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #48

                                          It’s a small game. They have Palworld to rake in the big bucks, so if their stance on AI use has changed, they can just remove that game.

                                          O 1 Reply Last reply
                                          1

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